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      08-02-2017, 04:33 PM   #155
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What problem are you having that makes you think you need a cabinet in the back? Also have you changed the 6.5" in the footwells?

I can't speak to the results yet, but with high quality 6.5" pair and a corresponding high quality 8" pair in that little car, driven by an amplifier with good, clean power, I expect it to pass muster. Also just remember that every 3db/w improvement in the speakers efficiency is like doubling amplifier power. I expect both replacement woofer sets to be far more efficient ... coupled with more power from the amp, should have reasonable headroom to push without breaking up. Being both small and in a reasonably sealed environment (though not tuned to anything ... lol) it should be pretty tight.

Okay ... I"m being hopeful!

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      08-02-2017, 05:47 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstears View Post
I think I'm going to have to be ok with just ok sound out of the z4.
Just put the top down, downshift and step on it - it will sound better

Wait till you guys tune the amp, then put the top down and have to make a configuration decision (or get the controller that lets you do multiple configs)!

OK can be good enough, knowing no matter what you're never getting "great" in this vehicle....

Another set of tweeters showed up, play time next week for me...
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      08-03-2017, 02:15 PM   #157
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So I should have clarified, the reason the woofers don't sound great is due to their physical limitations. Because of the narrow platform, they hit their limits quickly. So as the volume goes up, the woofers can't extend anymore and start slapping instead of thumping. If they were traditional 8" woofers, the bass would probably overwhelm a car that small. And I'm not cranking it way up, just moderate levels. As far as the kick panel speakers, I've read many times on different forums that most of the bass comes from them, but I can't see or hear that. I've watched them while playing music and I don't see much movement, especially compared to the 8" woofers. There's only so much air a 6.5" speaker can move. I think the only way to get the tight, low end bass is with a full sized 8" or 10" powered subwoofer. But I would only do that if I could get a nice, custom enclosure that isn't noticeable and doesnt take up a lot of room.
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      08-03-2017, 03:36 PM   #158
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Got it. On the 6.5's I don't believe they are used on other current BMW's. I believe they were in the E85 and feedback on those speakers would be relative to that configuration (which I've not researched, but doubt is the same as the E89).

I've not looked at this in detail, but remember our 6.5's are bridged from BMW. Looking at the wiring diagram they bridge in parallel. Someone can check me on this but given the same amplifier that is not in bridged mode, when the speakers are run in parallel one is basically going to share the same power with two speakers (the resistance drops). Given all channels on the amp are the same, this means half the power output to each speaker. Not going to do a lot for moving air, right? If one goes to a dedicated channel to speaker configuration, you'll get more power ... kinda twice the power. If the speakers are also 3 or 6 or 9 db/w more efficient, two to four times the power again, efficiency-wise.

The Hertz 165.1's I've installed are 97db/w efficient ... I'd be surprised if the factory units reached 90db/w ... so my new speakers are like doubling to tripling amp power. And then ... I changed my amp, which I suspect about doubles the clean channel output ... and I went dedicated channels to the 6.5s ... doubling output to each speaker. They are 100hz to 10k ... so they don't go down so deep. I guess I'm saying, I expect a much greater contribution from the new configuration.

I'm curious to see where all this lands. Just need to get back home and do some more installation work!

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      08-03-2017, 05:05 PM   #159
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So have you tested the 6.5" woofers with your new configuration? I'm interested to hear if you notice a big difference. Also, I'm interested to see how you like your new 8" subs. I ordered a combox from bimmer tech and just got it in the mail today. I hope to get it installed tonight and wrap up the 2 other speakers so I can be done with the audio phase! I bought the combox because I want to be able to Bluetooth stream music and have it integrate into the iDrive. Did any of you have the combox from the factory? Do you like it?
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      08-04-2017, 10:06 AM   #160
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I can tell you only some of the bass comes from the 6.5, as I can mute all of the other channels and see what they really add. I don't remember if separating the channels when the amp was installed sounds different - too long ago. They won't move too much regardless (especially mine) due to the frequency and the limited range I have them running at.

Filippo - I'm betting you have to crank these down (spl wise) - but I'll take an efficient speaker any day. Hurry up and finish this - will ya - I'm waiting on your feedback to buy them.

Another vendor making speakers for BMWs (just to have all this info in one place) is ETON http://www.eton-gmbh.com/en/products...o/bmw-upgrade/

No US distributors, but guy on 3 series forum gets these from Europe via ebay seller/distributor: acr-bad-hersfeld_de
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      08-04-2017, 12:55 PM   #161
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Sorry guys, work travel is cramping my style but I head back from NYC tonight. I'll make progress on the weekend, but vacation next week and another week (it looks like) in NYC after ... so it's going to be a few weeks out, not to mention that I am waiting on a cable from bimmertech. The Hertz stuff is great - I ended up on that 6.5" because jake169 got a custom Hertz-based installation done on his car (separate amp and separate DSP), so he laid the tracks for that purchase.

I don't have iDrive. Bluetooth integration is moronic from BMW, who claims to be a technology company. mid-level VWs do better than my Z4 without iDrive. For non-iDrive I tried lots of stuff and settled on the Tune2Air WMA1000. Also sold as "Bovee WMA1000" I believe. Don't try the 2000 or 3000 ... won't work (ask me how I know). The WMA1000 does drop connection some times, but mostly works. Mostly. Argh.

I have someone I'm dealing with in Germany to buy German HIFI stuff. If you need contact info, send me a PM so I can provide his web site (he carries lots of German brands that have BMW fitment) and his Facebook ID so you can message with him. As a USA guy, he gave me a priced shipped with no VAT - Paypal invoice ... worked great.

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      08-04-2017, 03:47 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmorelli View Post
Sorry guys, work travel is cramping my style but I head back from NYC tonight.

Filippo
Damn that work "stuff"... As a road warrior myself - completely understand. Spent last ~yr up at National Grid out in Hicksville NY. Trying to get all of this stuff done (and housework) before I have to hit the road again.

This gives me time to play some as well - next week getting by buddy's portable A/C for the garage and will be playing with some speaker options. I'll take some pictures of the software settings so we can compare notes.
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      08-07-2017, 10:10 PM   #163
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So an update to the sound: after spending a week in the z4 l, I can tell you the bavsound stage 1 speaker upgrade made the sound significantly better. It's much clearer, and again, with the factory amp still. I highly recommend them. The ghost woofers were a lot of work to install, and although better, probably not worth the expense or work. I do want to add an 8" or 10" woofer to that space between the back seasts and behind the center console. There is a square indentation of about a foot by a foot in the wall behind the seats and in front of the trunk that exists for those that have the pass through option. I don't have that option, but I think it would be an excellent space for a nice subwoofer. With that addition, the sound system would be very good. What do you all think about open air subwoofers, where they are just mounted to the frame without an enclosure. Is the trunk small enough to act like an enclosure? I know a lot of factory subwoofers on the rear deck are open without an enclosure. It would make installation very easy and take up minimal space. Probably wouldn't sound as good as enclosed, but maybe if the trunk wad lined with sound insulation? The volume would also change depending on if the roof was up or down. Thoughts?
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      08-07-2017, 11:20 PM   #164
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Not my specialty so I can't help. I'm sure you could build a small sealed box for a woofer in the ski compartment. It would not take up much trunk space and reality is our trunks are not super useful ... especially toward the rear bulkhead as you can't reach in there easily. My bimmertech amp (Audiotec Fischer) has pre-amp outs which would allow for an easy amp/sub add without any mods to the factory wiring.

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      08-08-2017, 08:28 AM   #165
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There are some pics somewhere on the web of a sub install behind the seats, replacing the 2 stock units with a custom made cabinet. It was flush with the back of the seats, if I remember right - but seemed like a lot of work.

Free air sub will work with/without the top down, volume wont really be a factor due to trunk venting. Won't hit as tight as a sealed (of some sort) unit. You're at diminishing returns at this point, but do the amp upgrade and get some power to those new subs first - that's the easiest path and will make a difference.

I'm headed outside today to play with my set-up and will start another thread...
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      10-20-2017, 01:45 AM   #166
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I have posted here for a while as I've been on travel. The car had been off the road in early summer as I worked the stereo, but then I just wasn't around since late July to drive it. Given the nice Fall weather in Virginia, I'm trying to get some driving time, so I've delayed finishing the stereo.

Giving I'm driving it, we've started back up on getting tuning done, with B-Q Tuning doing his thing. I had been seeing some strange CEL codes, but an adaptation reset seems to have taken care of that.

I just ordered bimmerlife coils which you can read about on other forums (e.g. spool street). These are R8/Lambo/BMW Motorsport "smart coils" that change how ignition is provided to the plugs and significantly increase the charge power. This allows running different plugs and a bigger gap. I plan to run NGK SILZBR8D8S plugs for the BMW N20. Two quicks notes: if you consider ordering a set, the Z4 needs a different harness so you want to give Alex a heads up so he gets your the right setup. Second, my understanding is that today these can only be run if you are tuning with MHD - there is a checkbox for this ignition in the options screen. I'm not sure what gets changed in the DME but I do know the smart coils sort out their own dwell (versus in the DME) and I don't require multi-spark (which I believe the BMW DME performs). Anyway we are out of my realm of knowledge on that, but Cobb does not support these coils today.

So my hope is to finish up tuning in the next six weeks or so, at least on pump gas (hint hint). Then when it gets cold the car will go on stands to get the rest of the stereo installed, and the KW V3s along with camber/caster plates.

With some luck, I have more planned for next year, but right now its time to finish the in-flight items. As usual there are a few Z4-owning suspects that have been super helpful in this journey. I won't name names as they know who they are.

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      10-22-2017, 07:17 PM   #167
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Filippo, thanks for all the pictures and write up. New E89 owner here and one of the first things I noticed in my E89 with the idrive audio system is really good music reproduction. I have had the HK BMW audio in the past and enjoyed it but I thought the E89's system was better. The center channel is nice to have in a car due to the poor acoustics and helps with stereo imaging. The foot well mid-bass driver set up is strange. If the system is crossovered over at say 300hz and lower to the footwell area it should not be a big deal. If higher frequencies are involved than you are correct about the strange bridge set up BMW did with the system.

Anyhow, everyone enjoy your E89. The best looking car under $100k.
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      10-22-2017, 08:09 PM   #168
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Interesting thought. Once I get the rest of my system in, I will likely have it professionally tuned. What I may do is pull the center cover and the right mid-bass footwell cover so the tuner can switch connections easily and decide if center channel is better versus taking it out of the mix. Since I have the wiring in place, it is easy to plug the right mid-bass speaker in bridged with center channel versus unbridged without center channel.

I understand there is a C&C at BMW of Sterling in November. You might consider attending.

Thanks for the post!

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      10-22-2017, 08:13 PM   #169
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Adding a few Fall photos ...

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      10-23-2017, 12:21 AM   #170
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Beautiful E89! I have friends and family that love their Boxsters and Caymans but the E89 has always been my dream car.

Thanks for the C&C link. My last car (MINI R59) I bought new at BMW of Sterling. I hope that Z8 shows up like in previous meets!
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      02-03-2018, 10:34 AM   #171
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The car is back under development, and I will be posting on this thread over the next couple months.

As a quick recap, we had done much FBO and much of the suspension in then first phase (V1) of this car, along with bodywork, I had also begun work on changing out the stereo system (along with some sound deadening). To date, work on the car has been done by Barry Battle (3DMMotorsport, tuning by Dimitri (BQ), and of course work by myself.

The car is about to head over to Barry Battle's shop for a months work. He and I will be working together, as we have in the past.

I have decided to share my ongoing build sheet, since it largely consolidates modifications in one succinct place and may be of value to others:
Google Build Sheet.

To summarise the V2 phase of work being done. I am looking to prepare the car for a reliable 600whp - by that I mean I expect the car to support 100k miles of moderate to sometimes full use at that power level:
  • Complete suspension upgrades - coilovers, few remaining joints have spherical or ball joints.
  • Upgrade ignition system to reliably spark at new power levels.
  • Upgrade fuel system (direct injection only) to run at target power levels.
  • Prepare for an hopefully add flex fuel implementation.
  • Stiffen transmission and rear subframe to handle power levels, without significant NVH increases.
  • Upgrade clutch/flywheel to support power level.
  • Finish the stereo and sound deadening work I did over the summer.
  • We are discussing upgrading the turbos (without we're closer to the 500whp target). This is still up for discussion, and we've not completed committed to V2, or whether its a next phase (V3) project.

By continuing to post here, I hope some of this information is useful to others. The E89 Z4 is similar to other BMWs yet has many many nuances that are a pain to deal with along the way to making changes. It's always the little things - like the bimmerlife smart coil setup going into the car: one would think N54, it is the same as the E90 which shares the same motor, but Alex had to make the wiring loom a bit longer for the Z4. And so it goes.

I hope the above build sheet is helpful to others. If I or Barry can answer any questions, if we know the answers we are glad to share. Barry has, for better or worse, become a bit of an expert on the E89 by school of hard knox. The car sent him into the machine shop to mill new parts or modify existing parts many times. I doubt this go-around will be much different.

Filippo
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      04-03-2018, 08:23 PM   #172
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Given the lack of traffic on E89post, I have moved this thread over to Spool-street, where I spend more time now. Please feel free to continue following updates there: Atacama Yellow Build on Spool-street

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      04-03-2018, 11:48 PM   #173
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