Moving from 2014 Cayman S, what next?

[RM7]

Plus, today's "sports cars" are pulling handling and acceleration numbers as good as or better than yesterday's "super cars". Probably compared to those, the modern cars ride way better (than an F40), but at 1.0 lateral Gs, it's still going to be a stiff ride to accomplish that. Hard to have no compromises whatsoever, but remember how much better cars are performing. Things like active cruise control and adjustable suspension help, of course one of these uses auto trans, but they are faster these days anyway.

[RM7]

Is it lag, or just being in too low of a gear? Autos like to cruise in the highest gear possible, which usually isn't good for a turbo engine. The. At 1200rpm it has to downshift a few times to really get into the RPM and HP range to give you any real "oomph". Once you are there at 2500 rpm, it's fine, so if you had the ability to be cruising at that rpm and hit the gas, it'll "go" with minimal/hard to feel any-lag. My wrx was rev-happy, but below 2500 it was a dog, especially with the AC on. A tune and mods helped with this. It was hard to really experience "lag" though if you were shifting it. Above 3K you hit the gas and "instant go". My LS3 on the last car was NA, but that really had to get up to about 4K before it really became alive, although there was torque for days at lower RPM where it could seemingly pull out of anything, still, that response would be slow (could even say "laggy", but you are in a ridiculously high gear, so have to keep that perspective). So I have to wonder if these engines are really that "laggy", because they all (modern turbos from all European manufacturers) make full torque around 1500rpm or less, or if it's the transmission seeking out the highest gear and simply being in too high of a gear for acceleration?

I don't know if the M2 is manual only, but the "lag" was something I got by with just fine in the wrx. The little engine was very "rev-happy".

[baege]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Is it lag, or just being in too low of a gear? Autos like to cruise in the highest gear possible, which usually isn't good for a turbo engine. The. At 1200rpm it has to downshift a few times to really get into the RPM and HP range to give you any real "oomph". Once you are there at 2500 rpm, it's fine, so if you had the ability to be cruising at that rpm and hit the gas, it'll "go" with minimal/hard to feel any-lag. My wrx was rev-happy, but below 2500 it was a dog, especially with the AC on. A tune and mods helped with this. It was hard to really experience "lag" though if you were shifting it. Above 3K you hit the gas and "instant go". My LS3 on the last car was NA, but that really had to get up to about 4K before it really became alive, although there was torque for days at lower RPM where it could seemingly pull out of anything, still, that response would be slow (could even say "laggy", but you are in a ridiculously high gear, so have to keep that perspective). So I have to wonder if these engines are really that "laggy", because they all (modern turbos from all European manufacturers) make full torque around 1500rpm or less, or if it's the transmission seeking out the highest gear and simply being in too high of a gear for acceleration?

I don't know if the M2 is manual only, but the "lag" was something I got by with just fine in the wrx. The little engine was very "rev-happy".

no it's lag, even when I hit at 3000rpm there is a hesitation before the real power comes on

I know exactly what you mean about the LS3, my C7 had throttle lag due to the throttle mapping on the torque management system that GM applies, the throttle is not linear, 25% of pedal does not equal 25% of throttle, this makes the car feel sluggish at partial throttle inputs...

[BMWILUVU]

I tracked the M2 and found very little turbo lag if at all and it was quite responsive.

[1MOREMOD]

At the track you are in different rpm range than you would be on the street and are always keeping the thing percolating. Not valid

[No Boost]

Fabspeed sport cat DP, problem (essentially) solved. Be prepared to wait for product delivery though.

[Alfisti]

What twisties? I cannot find a decent road in Toronto to save my life. This is the crux of the problem, most roads are arrow straight and stop/start with way, way too many lights and stop signs and nmjo roundabouts (infuriates me as an aussie).

So how do you enjoy a sports car? The only fun to be had is entering freeways, and a decent GT car will do that well enough.

The roads are also pock marked, honestly as a "fun" daily driver you need more compliance and tyre profile than many sports cars offer. I am seriously considering the previous X1 with a tuned 35i for this reason.

[Alfisti]

You sure it's just not the dreaded BMW throttle lag? It's there on our 35i X3 and on the 28i X1 we had it was FUCKING CHRONIC. Cannot believe they shipped the cars this way.

[davis449]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

At the track you are in different rpm range than you would be on the street and are always keeping the thing percolating. Not valid

Drive the car in manual mode, problem solved. Even I get pissed at the perceived "lag" that's not lag at all and I have to remind myself that unless the car is "driven", it's not gonna "drive".

[baege]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

You sure it's just not the dreaded BMW throttle lag? It's there on our 35i X3 and on the 28i X1 we had it was FUCKING CHRONIC. Cannot believe they shipped the cars this way.

nah its the same turbo lag I experienced on my 1990 talon....only less pronounced

[baege]

Originally Posted by davis449

Drive the car in manual mode, problem solved. Even I get pissed at the perceived "lag" that's not lag at all and I have to remind myself that unless the car is "driven", it's not gonna "drive".

it was a manual m2

[Alfisti]

Is there a SPORT option or something that tells the car you are ready to boogie? I just suspect it's not turbo lag but BMW trying to eek out MPG for the window sticker.

I drive a 2008 9-3 and that has some lag, there's a little dead spot at 80KMH (50mph) but it then pull shard from 100 to 140. For what is a 15 year old design, it eats miles on long trips at 33 MPG.

[baege]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

What twisties? I cannot find a decent road in Toronto to save my life. This is the crux of the problem, most roads are arrow straight and stop/start with way, way too many lights and stop signs and nmjo roundabouts (infuriates me as an aussie).

So how do you enjoy a sports car? The only fun to be had is entering freeways, and a decent GT car will do that well enough.

The roads are also pock marked, honestly as a "fun" daily driver you need more compliance and tyre profile than many sports cars offer. I am seriously considering the previous X1 with a tuned 35i for this reason.

i am also in toronto and indeed the opportunities are rare...this used to frustrate me but now like i said i dont crave the curves

[MagnusT]

In my experience sporty doesn't HAVE to mean stiff bouncy ride. IMHO Öhlins are champions of making suspension that enhances grip and handling without sacrifising comfort. I've actually experienced Öhlins equipped cars with improved comfort AND handling compared to stock. Even their entry level Road&Track kit can be set to not compromise comfort but still improve handling.

All IMHO of course.

[AtlasM]

I'm 34. I had a '13 135is DCT and '05 Grand Cherokee Hemi that I consolidated into my current '11 E92 335xi 6MT with a bunch of mods.

I have a 1 car garage, plus plenty of outdoor parking. My wife and I alternate weeks of who gets to park in the garage. With my 2 cars plus my wife's it was easy enough most of the year but in the winter, if I kept the 135is in the garage, we'd both be parking the car we actually drive outside all winter, so I stored it in winters.

I liked having the 2 cars so I could decide if I felt like the more cramped, high-strung 1er, or the Jeep when I wanted a comfy ride and room to spread out. It was also nice when driving the Jeep to not have to worry about every stupid crappy bumpy road or too-steep parking lot driveway, both of which are all too common here in Wisconsin.

But I got sick of the winter storage and went down to 1 car for myself.

My car isn't terribly stiff for a modified car but it's still bumpy. When I get in my wife's Subaru Impreza I'm like, "ahh, this is so smooth and comfy!" I'd still like to go back to 2 cars, 1 comfy cruiser SUV type thing and one fun car. Probably a convertible if I were to do it again. But that's not happening until I have a bigger garage (and house attached to it).

[davis449]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

45 is too soon? Shit, I'm mid 30s & feel the same.

Nope, mid-30's and right there with you. My e89 feels like a GT car compared to the cars I've owned\modded previous to this. I am increasingly leaning toward more comfortable, fast cars.

[atxgt3]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

You sure it's just not the dreaded BMW throttle lag? It's there on our 35i X3 and on the 28i X1 we had it was FUCKING CHRONIC. Cannot believe they shipped the cars this way.

My X5M if not in sport mode is completely dead. I was going to pull out into traffic the other day and forgot to put it in M mode, so I floored it and turned out into traffic and.. Nothing. No response for a couple of seconds. I had to turn back off the road to get out of the way of the cars coming up behind me. It's frustrating at best, and dangerous at worst.

I'm sure they ship it this way for MPG purposes, but that doesn't make me any happier about it.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by atxgt3

My X5M if not in sport mode is completely dead. I was going to pull out into traffic the other day and forgot to put it in M mode, so I floored it and turned out into traffic and.. Nothing. No response for a couple of seconds. I had to turn back off the road to get out of the way of the cars coming up behind me. It's frustrating at best, and dangerous at worst.

I'm sure they ship it this way for MPG purposes, but that doesn't make me any happier about it.

Agreed. The M cars need to be in Sport+ to have any real gusto.

OP - part of the issue if you're coming from a car with immediate throttle response, one of the best on the market. Going to a turbo car will always feel different. Even the new 991.2 turbos as great as their throttle response is can't quite match the NA cars.

My opinion is that you either grow to like it or not. I don't particularly love the throttle response in my M4 but once spooled or in very high RPMs it's ok. Driving this car in the street and normally there will always be that feeling.

[m5james]

I've found the lag to be an issue in my X5M, but I blame the transmission. In D and causal, it's determined to try to go into 6th gear whenever it can...and when it's not needed. Sometimes I'll find myself hittting the paddle into 5th, in hopes that maybe it'll stay in in, sometimes yes and sometimes no. If needed, I'll bump it into sport, but then it locks up the torque converter (I don't know if other BMW autos do the same), so then it's almost too aggressive since there's NO slack in the transmission and the throttle becomes super sensitive. While driving in anything other than chill casual...I don't notice the lag at all....boost is instant and pulls me into my seat if I stay WOT. Maybe the M2 needs a flash and/or JB4 because for me it makes it feel better overall in that it helps the boost come on quicker vs stock. NA vs FI (turbos or centrifugal SC's, both of which need spool time) are gonna be a different use of throttle overall though.

[atxgt3]

Originally Posted by m5james

I've found the lag to be an issue in my X5M, but I blame the transmission. In D and causal, it's determined to try to go into 6th gear whenever it can...and when it's not needed. Sometimes I'll find myself hittting the paddle into 5th, in hopes that maybe it'll stay in in, sometimes yes and sometimes no. If needed, I'll bump it into sport, but then it locks up the torque converter (I don't know if other BMW autos do the same), so then it's almost too aggressive since there's NO slack in the transmission and the throttle becomes super sensitive. While driving in anything other than chill casual...I don't notice the lag at all....boost is instant and pulls me into my seat if I stay WOT. Maybe the M2 needs a flash and/or JB4 because for me it makes it feel better overall in that it helps the boost come on quicker vs stock. NA vs FI (turbos or centrifugal SC's, both of which need spool time) are gonna be a different use of throttle overall though.

The problem with the X5M is like you said, either it's too docile or it's too aggressive. The happiest medium I've found is the transmission in setting 2 and the engine in Sport (not +). When I'm driving at speed I'll switch the transmission to setting 3 because the change in responsiveness from setting 2 to 3 is huge, but it gets tiresome driving in setting 3 at lower speeds because there is no slack in the driveline like you said. It gets very jerky. It's frustrating having to change settings all the time. BMW could have definitely done a better job with the programming on this car.

In setting 1 the transmission is just dog slow even in the lower gears. If you roll up to a stop sign, stop, and try to get going again, the car just doesn't do anything at all for what feels like an eternity. At a stop sign that's just an annoyance and not necessarily dangerous (although you could get rear ended if the person behind you is expecting you to move out of the way quicker). However, if you pull into a turn lane and slow down, then try to speed up quickly to merge with traffic, you could end up in a wreck quickly because the car just doesn't move.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by davis449

Drive the car in manual mode, problem solved. Even I get pissed at the perceived "lag" that's not lag at all and I have to remind myself that unless the car is "driven", it's not gonna "drive".

When I drive it in manual mode, that's when the car comes alive. Yes like you said, the car needs to be driven, it won't drive itself.

[jim996]

The M4 in sports plus has minimal turbo lag above 3000 rpm. The turbos pre spool to keep them ready on the M4. I test drove an M2 and felt it had a gaping hole in the power band in comparison to the 4