Don't plan on trading your Z4 anytime soon...

[bobbydog]

Funny, I got the Z4 because I actually find it more exciting to drive than the M3. The M3 is a great car but just a little soft for normal driving. The engine does sound great but have to pay for it (30% more gas and gas guzzler tax).
The Z4 is much lower and drives and feels like a race car even if driving within the speed limits. Ideally is to have both. I was going to trade in the M3 but decided to keep it as my family car since I needed a sedan anyway.
And they're both white on red leather!( fox red M3, coral red Z4)

[Vintage]

Hey - I love naturally aspirated V8s too, who doesn't? However, if it is more speed, power, and SOUND you want for about $4k - buy Eisenmann Race Exhaust, ESS Stage 1 or 2 tune, and Stett Performance Cold Air Intake (not a hot air dual cone deal); crazy power, speed, and intoxicating sound. Yes, the entry fee of about $4k discourages many, but you will save a ton compared to trading in your car.

Originally Posted by twin turbo

I haven't seen or heard a new M3 in several months, but don't see many Z4's either. For me, a car has to exciting to drive, and this car has lost some of it's fun factor for me. Keep in mind I drive 100 miles on the interstate every day at 80+ mph, so putting the top down really isn't much fun. I love to drive the car around town especially with the top down. There is nothing wrong with the Z4, don't get me wrong. Just the V8 rumble and the intake sound in the ISF above 3600 rpms is just pure music to my ears, and the Z4 just doesn't make music. I have the exhaust flap disabled (golf tee mod) on my car too, so it's open all the time, which sounds better but still boring. I just need another V8 and the M3 should do the trick. Just have to wait for some finance incentives.

You are right, Shelby's and Vipers have their place, they don't make good daily drivers. My wife keeps telling me to buy a beater to drive back and forth to work, but that means 10 hours a week in a beater. Doesn't sound good to me. If I had the funds for a third car (and a third garage), that would be the best solution for me. I could drive the Shelby/Viper on the weekends but still have a nice car for the commute. Can't really swing three nice cars right now.

[Chuck76]

Originally Posted by twin turbo

I haven't seen or heard a new M3 in several months, but don't see many Z4's either. For me, a car has to exciting to drive, and this car has lost some of it's fun factor for me. Keep in mind I drive 100 miles on the interstate every day at 80+ mph, so putting the top down really isn't much fun. I love to drive the car around town especially with the top down. There is nothing wrong with the Z4, don't get me wrong. Just the V8 rumble and the intake sound in the ISF above 3600 rpms is just pure music to my ears, and the Z4 just doesn't make music. I have the exhaust flap disabled (golf tee mod) on my car too, so it's open all the time, which sounds better but still boring. I just need another V8 and the M3 should do the trick. Just have to wait for some finance incentives.

You are right, Shelby's and Vipers have their place, they don't make good daily drivers. My wife keeps telling me to buy a beater to drive back and forth to work, but that means 10 hours a week in a beater. Doesn't sound good to me. If I had the funds for a third car (and a third garage), that would be the best solution for me. I could drive the Shelby/Viper on the weekends but still have a nice car for the commute. Can't really swing three nice cars right now.

My beater right now is a 08 Honda Civic EX. And when the weather is great I don't ride the Z4 I usually ride my sportbikes.

100 miles...I can see how that can get tiring over and over again, but man the M3 is like 14mpg and 20mpg on the hwy. 5 gallons used on one trip to and from work.

I think its $3.13/gallon here in the Bay Area right now. 09 M3 is 16.6 fuel tank capacity. Fill up after every 2 1/2 days? Sounds like my 95 mustang cobra I commuted with ~80 daily miles.

I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth as I worked hard to get where I am so considering that the M3 can depreciate with mileage (I think more than a Z4 as its a "M" car?) the wear and tear (not talking about mileage, but more from rock chips, paint blemishes, etc for 100 mile daily commute), cost on fuel...that wouldn't be reasonable to me.

And if I had to do a 100 mile commute on my Z4 I wouldn't buy it either.

So my buddy does use his M3 to commute and its his only car. I didn't hear him complain, but his commute is around ~50 miles daily.

And my friend who has the white ISF doesn't even drive it to work, only if weather conditions are bad (rain). He rides his sportbike to save on fuel cost. He goes into work 3 times a week, but its 150 mile commute.

[twin turbo]

Originally Posted by Chuck76

My beater right now is a 08 Honda Civic EX. And when the weather is great I don't ride the Z4 I usually ride my sportbikes.

100 miles...I can see how that can get tiring over and over again, but man the M3 is like 14mpg and 20mpg on the hwy. 5 gallons used on one trip to and from work.

I think its $3.13/gallon here in the Bay Area right now. 09 M3 is 16.6 fuel tank capacity. Fill up after every 2 1/2 days? Sounds like my 95 mustang cobra I commuted with ~80 daily miles.

I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth as I worked hard to get where I am so considering that the M3 can depreciate with mileage (I think more than a Z4 as its a "M" car?) the wear and tear (not talking about mileage, but more from rock chips, paint blemishes, etc for 100 mile daily commute), cost on fuel...that wouldn't be reasonable to me.

And if I had to do a 100 mile commute on my Z4 I wouldn't buy it either.

So my buddy does use his M3 to commute and its his only car. I didn't hear him complain, but his commute is around ~50 miles daily.

And my friend who has the white ISF doesn't even drive it to work, only if weather conditions are bad (rain). He rides his sportbike to save on fuel cost. He goes into work 3 times a week, but its 150 mile commute.

My work helps me out with fuel costs so that is not a huge concern, but I am greatly concerned about the depreciation of a $75,000 car. I doubt it will be 39% in 5 months like I am currently facing. I usually trade cars about every 2 years. I try to trade before 50,000 miles. We deal with several automobile wholesalers in our business and they all say that anything over 50,000 miles takes the biggest hit in depreciation. The dealer cannot offer an extended warranty etc.

If the wife will let me, I will try to drive her car one day a week, which will save me 5,000 miles a year. She drives 5 miles round trip to work per day so she has plenty of miles to spare on her lease.

If I buy a relatively new honda something and then insure it, I don't think I will save enough money to make it worth driving a honda with 9 horsepower 2 hours a day. It's a tough situation. If I could sell my house, I would move closer to work but we all know that situation. Oh well, such is life. Enjoy your car.

[alan64]

For me, being able to put the top down on a beautiful day, but still have the hardtop, is a winning combination in a sportscar. One of the things I really like about it is a small thing, but I like the fac they have added those small side windows. It makes it a lot less closed in feeling when the top is up. I had a z06 before this and I was looking at the zr1. I finally said,, this is crazy. My z06 was wickedly fast and the zr1 is even more crazy. Where I live there are red light cameras all over the place. Its a recipe for tons of tickets and problems. The roadster of course is not in the speed league, but these days its more than enough power for what it is. I guess im getting older, but its just nicer to slow up and enjoy life more, and what better way than in a great looking roadster.

[BlueZ4AZ]

What was this thread supposed to be about???

Oh I remember now..... The stealership threw some BS Z4 trade in figure at Twin Turbo, backed by some lame a$$ pretzel logic that we all know was nothing more than a crock of S&*T

[Stick Shift]

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

look - it is a very good time to buy cars but not sell them; plus, in this economy depreciation will be huge for ANY car (just look at the brand new 911)

+1
My 2008 911 is worth about $25k less than I paid for it new. I'm not worried about it since I plan to keep it for many years.

[bobbydog]

So the dealer is saying that they pay 44K for a new 2010 Z4 35i...So why is it that they cry about not making money when selling at 60K?

[BlueZ4AZ]

Originally Posted by bobbydog

So the dealer is saying that they pay 44K for a new 2010 Z4 35i...So why is it that they cry about not making money when selling at 60K?

Exactly!!!

They call that good old fashioned BS

Whenever I am negotiating with the stealership I get this glassy eyed look on my face whenever they start talking numbers, as if to say with just my facial expression...... "whenever you are done with the BS, I'd like to talk next." I make the look on purpose, so THEY KNOW I KNOW they are full of S%^t, without ever really having to actually say it with words.

[BlueZ4AZ]

I checked my own figures from my earlier post #15 against the lates KBB figures.

KBB Trade-in on a used $60k MSRP 2009 Z4 right now, with low miles, is about $50k.

Any dealer that thinks they are going to take a trade at $38k is DREAMING!!!! They are banking on the hopes you are so desperate to trade in the car this early that you'll GIVE it away. Not gonna' happen for them. None of us are that stupid or desperate.

[bobbydog]

instead of trading it in for 36k, I'd buy an M3 V8 engine an put it in the Z4. Then you'll have the first true Z4M!

[rmorin49]

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

I checked my own figures from my earlier post #15 against the lates KBB figures.

KBB Trade-in on a used $60k MSRP 2009 Z4 right now, with low miles, is about $50k.

Any dealer that thinks they are going to take a trade at $38k is DREAMING!!!! They are banking on the hopes you are so desperate to trade in the car this early that you'll GIVE it away. Not gonna' happen for them. None of us are that stupid or desperate.

KBB and Edmunds are notoriously high. You have to get pricing from the auctions, like Manheim to get a true wholesale value. This is how the dealers base their offers. Also, this time of year convertibles typically bring less money at the auctions except in Florida and maybe out west. The old rule of thumb for most cars was you drive it off the lot and it loses about 20% off the original MSRP.

[twin turbo]

Originally Posted by rmorin49

KBB and Edmunds are notoriously high. You have to get pricing from the auctions, like Manheim to get a true wholesale value. This is how the dealers base their offers. Also, this time of year convertibles typically bring less money at the auctions except in Florida and maybe out west. The old rule of thumb for most cars was you drive it off the lot and it loses about 20% off the original MSRP.

I was ready for 20 to 25%, not 39%. Where I work we have a subscription to the Black Book, which is released every week and based on actual auction numbers. The January 4th book still had no numbers for a 2009 Z4. Probably not enough units have come across the block yet. I usually bring this with me as ammunition since most dealers recognize that the Black Book is accurate and based on true wholesale numbers. All of the KBB and Edmunds web crap is always high and unrealistic. I can see one dealer trying to bullshit me, but both dealers almost 100 miles apart quoted me numbers a thousand dollars apart and gave similar reasons why. Just mind blowing.

[twin turbo]

Originally Posted by bobbydog

So the dealer is saying that they pay 44K for a new 2010 Z4 35i...So why is it that they cry about not making money when selling at 60K?

My earlier post was not completely accurate. I just pulled out the copy he gave me. It shows a 2010 version of my car with the exact options, and after the $5,000 rebate the bottom line wholesale number was $49,895, retail was $59,475. He deducted another $5,000 for the 12,000 miles I have on my car, hence the $44,000. Sorry for the misinformation. The form is titled Online Ordering Vehicle Inquiry: Wholesale/MSRP. I have purchased a couple cars from them and I am pretty friendly with the Sales Manager and they generally don't bullshit too much. On my last deal they gave me a good number on my Shelby and discounted their car a few thousand, got 3.9 APR on BMW select financing (pretty sure that was his buy rate). It was a decent deal for a brand new model car at the time IMHO. Of course BMW Financial released an awesome lease program about 2 months after I bought the car.

Still not sure how he arrived at $37,000. What I think he was trying to say was that a 2010 Z4 with 12,000 miles was worth $44,000, so a 2009 was worth $37,000. I told him I thought my car was easily worth $44,000 and that they could sell it for $48K or $49K all day long.

[bobbydog]

I would try Carmax and see what numbers they give you...I'm very curious since BMW Notrh America only sold 3500 units of Z4 in 2009 and probably only half of that are the new models. Compared to 91000 units of the 3 series. That means that the new Z4 is a very rare car, especially in the used car market. And they won't consider the 5000 incentive BMW gives on the 2010s. Plus you can't be in a better place than FL to sell a convertable in the winter.

...I just checked Carmax... they don't have the 2009 Z4 anywhere on their listing.

[BlueZ4AZ]

Originally Posted by twin turbo

I was ready for 20 to 25%, not 39%. Where I work we have a subscription to the Black Book, which is released every week and based on actual auction numbers. The January 4th book still had no numbers for a 2009 Z4. Probably not enough units have come across the block yet. I usually bring this with me as ammunition since most dealers recognize that the Black Book is accurate and based on true wholesale numbers. All of the KBB and Edmunds web crap is always high and unrealistic. I can see one dealer trying to bullshit me, but both dealers almost 100 miles apart quoted me numbers a thousand dollars apart and gave similar reasons why. Just mind blowing.

It is the dealers that want us all to think that KBB is too high. Dealers are the biggest bunch of BSers on earth, whether you personally know them or not. I got the KBB excellent condition trade-in figure on my 2007 Corvette when I traded it in on the Z4. ...and they didn't make up for it on the new car price either, because I got it for under invoice. ..and that was back when the 2009 had just been out a month or two, in July.
NO ONE is trading their 2009 Z4 with a $60k MSRP for $37k, not now, not tomorrow, and not anytime in the forseeable future. The dealers know it too.

[twin turbo]

Originally Posted by bobbydog

I would try Carmax and see what numbers they give you...I'm very curious since BMW Notrh America only sold 3500 units of Z4 in 2009 and probably only half of that are the new models. Compared to 91000 units of the 3 series. That means that the new Z4 is a very rare car, especially in the used car market. And they won't consider the 5000 incentive BMW gives on the 2010s. Plus you can't be in a better place than FL to sell a convertable in the winter.

...I just checked Carmax... they don't have the 2009 Z4 anywhere on their listing.

I will stop by, I have a Carmax dealer not too far from my office. Thanks.

[Parrotguy]

Hey Twin I know it doesn't matter to you any more but I don't think there is any way the dealer invoice can be 44k on a 60k MSRP. The dealer markup is no where near that much. I can't do the calculation because I don't know what your options were, but the dealer markup is more like 9% depending how you calculate things like the dest. charge. Did you see the invoice? Either this guy is lying or BMW is invoicing these cars at much lower figures than are published everywhere. I wonder if BMW is including a hold back in the invoice to increase the dealers profit?

Dealers are able to get used cars at very low prices, below wholesale, from various sources, which is why they won't offer anything higher than rock bottom wholesale. They make most of their profit on CPO's. Its a pain but I bet you could get a good number selling it yourself. If I were commuting a 100 miles I would feel the same way you do about the car. Best of luck.

[Parrotguy]

Twin sorry I didn't see your post #36 which clarified the dealers figure. This form you mentioned, Online ordering Vehicle Inquiry - do the figures on it for the dealer wholesale agree with the published figures? I am shopping and it would help if I knew what the dealer is actually paying. By the way, how much are you asking for yours?

[Parrotguy]

Several posters here have said that the $5000 program was only on the '09s. Did your dealer say it also applied to the 2010's?

[twin turbo]

Originally Posted by Parrotguy

Several posters here have said that the $5000 program was only on the '09s. Did your dealer say it also applied to the 2010's?

I am pretty sure he said that he could get a new 2010 for 49K. I was so aggravated that day I may have misheard him. Maybe he said that he could get a new 2009 for the same price I that I figured my car was worth.

Doesn't matter anymore, I just traded the Z4 on a 2010 Pearl White Nissan GTR. By the way, the Nissan dealer gave me $8500 more than either BMW dealership, and I got the GTR for $1500 over invoice, so no horseplay with the numbers. Pretty happy with the exchange.

[twin turbo]

Originally Posted by Parrotguy

Twin sorry I didn't see your post #36 which clarified the dealers figure. This form you mentioned, Online ordering Vehicle Inquiry - do the figures on it for the dealer wholesale agree with the published figures? I am shopping and it would help if I knew what the dealer is actually paying. By the way, how much are you asking for yours?

The retail numbers matched my window sticker exactly. I never checked the wholesale figures against anything.