3.0 vs 3.5 differences

[Memphis1]

sounds like you're justifying your purchase... i use the DCT daily and still can't feel the changes, no lurching forward, no roughness, just linear power...

[bobbydog]

BMW will most likely not make an M version of the new Z4. I was told that they're coming out with an M-tech package (for looks) and will have an software update to increase the power output of the existing twin turbo engine. That will ad another 25hp or so making it just as fast as the M3.
Good thing for all those who got the 35i!

[dszpiro]

Originally Posted by bobbydog

... and will have an software update to increase the power output of the existing twin turbo engine. That will add another 25hp or so making it just as fast as the M3.

Hmmm...wouldn't it be nice if we could just update the car's "firmware" by plugging the car into a personal computer? Or maybe just download it directly as an "update" from BMW through the BMW Assist feature? That would be nice.

[MilitaryE89]

Originally Posted by dszpiro

Hmmm...wouldn't it be nice if we could just update the car's "firmware" by plugging the car into a personal computer? Or maybe just download it directly as an "update" from BMW through the BMW Assist feature? That would be nice.

yes, but what if you happen to be addicted to internet porn and get a virus in your firmware...lol, you get ready to drag, rev up the launch control and just as the tires break free the car makes a porn star moan and drops its top...actually, thinking about it, thats kinda cool...

[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by MilitaryE89

yes, but what if you happen to be addicted to internet porn and get a virus in your firmware...lol, you get ready to drag, rev up the launch control and just as the tires break free the car makes a porn star moan and drops its top...actually, thinking about it, thats kinda cool...

I would be concerned about the security. If I could upload to the car without a direct connection, so could a hacker. I could just imagine the maliciousness one could do that would affect my safety, etc.

PS: I believe some tuning companies allow self updates. You download a file off the net and they send you the tool to plug into the ODBC and upload to the car.

PPS: Many cars do have direct access tuning SW as well. My nephew can tune his Buick GN between drag strip runs from a laptop. Its just not common on BMW yet due to the complexity of tuning them and the proprietary nature of some tuning companies "secret sauce".

[Rubber Ducky]

Software tunes self-installed: get real.

A.) Those direct firmware tunes that do exist now (Dinan) are proprietary, controlled through franchised dealers, and unavailable except through purchase.

B.) Any bootleg versions that might be found have all potential the security issues mentioned.

C.) Your BMW warranty will not cover damage to components resulting from the tune (and BMW takes all ties).

In general, hacker mods on the car's firmware are in the same category as self-done brain surgery on your significant other: you might like the idea in theory, but I doubt you'll be happy with the results.

[Merefield]

Originally Posted by Rubber Ducky

Software tunes self-installed: get real.

A.) Those direct firmware tunes that do exist now (Dinan) are proprietary, controlled through franchised dealers, and unavailable except through purchase.

B.) Any bootleg versions that might be found have all potential the security issues mentioned.

C.) Your BMW warranty will not cover damage to components resulting from the tune (and BMW takes all ties).

In general, hacker mods on the car's firmware are in the same category as self-done brain surgery on your significant other: you might like the idea in theory, but I doubt you'll be happy with the results.

To add to this ...

There are no substitutes for the physical engineering that goes into the brakes, drivetrain, exhaust, differential, valve design, turbo design, etc. etc.

By boosting the power through firmware tricks you are just putting additional stress on the physical components which may not be designed to deal with that. For your "cheap" fun you may be impacting reliability significantly and ruining the balance of the car.

Look at what they typically do when creating an M version. Beneath the decals and the marketing hype there are genuine upgrades across the car in terms of the physical components, e.g. brakes, valve setup, materials, exhaust, intakes. On the last Z they EVEN changed the electric steering to a hydraulic setup. Required a little more than a "chipping"!

[msimon18]

Memphis - sorry, I do not have to JUSTIFY my purchase and you do not have to try to ANALYZE me either !!

All I am trying to do here os to RELATE my test drive experiences.... Take it or leave it, but don't ANALYZE it !

[BlueZ4AZ]

Originally Posted by msimon18

Memphis - sorry, I do not have to JUSTIFY my purchase and you do not have to try to ANALYZE me either !!

All I am trying to do here os to RELATE my test drive experiences.... Take it or leave it, but don't ANALYZE it !

If after reading about how smooth the DCT was in all the reviews, and then test driving one that was absolutely nothing like what you read, it may have been a good idea back then to ask the dealer to test drive a different 35i with DCT.

[Rubber Ducky]

Originally Posted by Merefield

To add to this ...

There are no substitutes for the physical engineering that goes into the brakes, drivetrain, exhaust, differential, valve design, turbo design, etc. etc.

By boosting the power through firmware tricks you are just putting additional stress on the physical components which may not be designed to deal with that. For your "cheap" fun you may be impacting reliability significantly and ruining the balance of the car.

Look at what they typically do when creating an M version. Beneath the decals and the marketing hype there are genuine upgrades across the car in terms of the physical components, e.g. brakes, valve setup, materials, exhaust, intakes. On the last Z they EVEN changed the electric steering to a hydraulic setup. Required a little more than a "chipping"!

However... Dinan has shown with the N54 engine that there's a lot of headroom for a tuner boost in the engine's specs. The HP and torque gains run to about 30% from 'true' stock (about 320 HP and lb-ft) to Dinan Stage II gains (around 425 for both). With no instance of engine damage from the tune (I had it for 30K miles in an E93 with zero difficulty). And Dinan picks up the warranty where BMW leaves off, on same terms. Dinan's is a pure firmware tune and it remaps just about everything in a balanced way. Not out yet for the Z4, but being worked or so Dinan says.

Difficulty will be with the DCT, which has a max torque rating of 375 lb-ft. That tracks with the gains in Dinan Stage I, but Stage II would over-torque the transmission even though the engine has shown it can handle it.

What about the various N54 chip regimes? As I understand it, they 'trick' the ECU by intercepting and modifying the incoming signals. IMHO this is a bit less sophisticated than Dinan's approach but also am not aware of any failures from the various chip sets. Do not know of any that carry a warranty, though. And it's pretty hard to erase the tune's fingerprints from the ECU record even if the chip itself can be removed - warranty issue if ever a chip did blow a turbo or the like. Dinan costs more (a lot) but the warranty brings piece of mind.

IMHO, tuning the N54 in the E89 is hauling coals to Newcastle. Not many situations where the road, the traffic, and the driver skills much exceed the capability of the stock s35i. Gonna track the car? Sure, the gains from tuning might matter. But real world? Not many chances to go WOT and hold it. YMMV.

[msimon18]

BlueZ4AZ,

Agree, would have been a good idea ASSUMING I had read something that indicated how SMOOTH it was...... I guess I just related the performance to the original single clutch transmission that I drove several years ago. It was terrible - the DCT was better but......

Anyway, I am pleased with my decision... there will always be another opportunity to get a new one a few years downstream and who knows, maybe they will have a TCT (triple clutch....) !!!!

[rmorin49]

Folks, I drove all 4 combinations this weekend. s30 w/Step, s30 w/6 speed, s35 w/DCT and s35 w/6 speed.

The s30 was particularly fun with the 6 speed as was the s35. I am really leaning toward the 6 speed manual as this will be a weekend fun car and not likely to get into lots of traffic as I will not be commuting in this car. I use my DSG R32 for this.

All 4 cars were a hoot to drive. Not sure if I really need all the power in the s35 and for $5k savings it might something to consider. I have rarely used all 300 horses in my E93.

Now if I could just decide on a color combo.

[Vintage]

decisions decisions - if it were strictly for me I would probably go 6 speed but I am not sure which motor????

[dszpiro]

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

decisions decisions - if it were strictly for me I would probably go 6 speed but I am not sure which motor????

Considering why we drive the cars, I suggest the answer is clear: if you can afford it, get the 35i. If a faster version was available, I would have chosen that.

[richard in NC]

I too would have been happy with a 3.0 6 speed. Although, I would have always wondered if I should have gone for the 3.5. Another factor was the dealer was far more willing to deal on a 3.5 on the lot than ordering a 3.0.

The 3.5 did have everything I want (and more) and I got a good deal, for the time (late June).

[Roadstergal]

I was fully set on the 30i with the 6 speed manual. I would have been quite happy with the car. However, I ended up with the 35i due to the fact that I wanted the multi spoke wheels, the silver grills, the extended leather, and a few other trim differences. I was getting the exclusive white ivory with either car, but if I had gone with the 30i, I wouldn't have the extended leather. None of these singularly would not have been a dealer breaker, but adding them all up, I had to go with the 35i. I am thrilled with the 35i!

[msimon18]

I thought the extended leather was included with the Ivory package on EITHER the 30 or the 35 ??!!

[Roadstergal]

Originally Posted by msimon18

I thought the extended leather was included with the Ivory package on EITHER the 30 or the 35 ??!!

No, it is not. Extended leather on all Kansas leather colors are available only on the 35i. I thought that the exclusive ivory white package would be the exception to the rule. I found out when I built my car on the BMW website that it was not and had it confirmed by my salesman. I really like the look of the extended leather on the dash.

[Vintage]

I drove my wife's 35i this weekend as she drove my X5 35d; in short, the power of twin turbos is addicting in the Z - get the big motor

[BlueZ4AZ]

Originally Posted by msimon18

BlueZ4AZ,

Agree, would have been a good idea ASSUMING I had read something that indicated how SMOOTH it was...... I guess I just related the performance to the original single clutch transmission that I drove several years ago. It was terrible - the DCT was better but......

Anyway, I am pleased with my decision... there will always be another opportunity to get a new one a few years downstream and who knows, maybe they will have a TCT (triple clutch....) !!!!

Your experience during the test drive of the DCT was far and away much different than anyone elses. A more thorough Internet search would have resulted in any number of articles reviewing the DCT. Many reviews applaud the smoothness (or any number of synonyms you want to insert) of the dual clutch transmission when compared to the 6 speed manual.

[rmorin49]

Other than the obvious differences such as the exhaust pipes, badging and grill any other exterior differences between the s30 and s35? I like the wheels on the s30 SP better than the ones on the s35 and after driving an s30 with a manual 6 speed I am really leaning toward the s30.

If I would get an s35 with the SP, anyone with a 30 SP want to swap wheels and tires? Looks like there will be about a $4K difference in price. Is there enough weight difference in the 2 cars that will have the s30 handle a little better? What about the brakes, are they the same?

[bobbydog]

The brakes on the 35i are bigger than the 30i...You can't put the standard 17inch from the 30i on the 35i but the SP 18inch will fit both.