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      Today, 09:27 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post

"In comparing our observations to a random model, we found that there was little to no difference in the results. We cannot conclude that states that regulate private gun sales have a higher, or lower, gun homicide rate."

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b01ecaf1a3e838
tl;dr - We found a bunch of studies that didn't agree with our point of view so we discarded those because they "were arbitrary" or "didn't make sense" until we found a study that used a single criteria that doesn't really have a strong correlation with overall gun laws and just applied that to everything.


"We also found a study that showed states with at least one firearm law designed to protect children were more likely to have a lower number of deaths due to injury by firearm (as a rate). But that wouldn’t have covered the Las Vegas shooting case.

A “smartgunlaws.org” scorecard gave states an A, B, C, D or F, based upon enacting legislation, as well as the “gun death rate.” But the grade, as well as the state ranking (1-51, including DC) seemed arbitrary. Among all of the B’s, or F’s, are they ranked in order to correlate with the gun death rate? So we passed on that one.

We also looked at the Center for Disease Control (CDC) website on gun mortality rates. But these deal with all deaths by guns: accidental (non-homicide shootings), suicides, folks killed while cleaning their gun, etc. It doesn’t cover gun homicides.

So finally we found a study with data from the CDC, the NRA-ILA, and The Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. It seems like as unbiased a data source as any. It compared the averages of states where background checks are required for all gun sales, including private ones. And the average gun-related homicide rate per 100,000 people among gun control states (3.31) was lower than those with no regulation of private gun sales (4.28).""
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      Today, 09:36 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by Rampant View Post
Perhaps it is you who should keep up, my friend - I already posted that the current knife crime problem in UK/London is simply an aberration and not indicative of an endemic or long-standing problem. Yet this is exactly what some people are trying to make it out to be - in their race to the bottom argument - which you now appear to be doing yourself. Do some research before falling into that fallacious argument. The clues are all in this very thread

Yours Aye

Mark H
Perhaps it is you who should keep up, my friend - I already posted that the current school shooting problem in US is simply an aberration and not indicative of an endemic or long-standing problem. Yet this is exactly what some people are trying to make it out to be - in their race to the bottom argument - which you now appear to be doing yourself. Do some research before falling into that fallacious argument. The clues are all in this very thread

The whole, I have worked with US forces in far away countries so I know what I am talking about is very thin. Go ahead and try to paint everyone with a broad brush, it just makes you look ignorant.
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      Today, 10:14 AM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post

The whole, I have worked with US forces in far away countries so I know what I am talking about is very thin. Go ahead and try to paint everyone with a broad brush, it just makes you look ignorant.
Again - context is king - I was responding to SakhirM4 who said that he was Air Force, as if that meant anything. Perhaps read the context before commenting next time, eh buddy?

Although, to be fair, I did also say that I saluted SakhirM4 for his principles, so mentioning my own Air Force background showed that my salute to him *Meant Something*, not just an arbitrary salute, but a solemn acknowledgement between "like minds" (even though we clearly don't agree on everything.)


With the rest of your parody, are you trying to convince me, or yourself, that the USA mass school shootings are a relatively recent thing?

Which they aren't - particularly when compared to the *VERY* recent upturn in knife crime in the UK/London, which I acknowledge is there, but for understood reasons and during, again, *VERY* recent times.
Unlike USA mass shootings in schools (and amongst other *vulnerable* demographics), which have clearly been on the rise for far longer and with no *tangible* underlying reasons. Well no tangible reasons other than guns ownership has no real control embedded in USA society.


See Hawkeye's post (ie - your own) above for *meaningful* statistics - statistics and claims that aren't randomly cherry-picked between non-equivalent test groups to reaffirm your "conclusions" upon. ("conclusions" = transparent preconceptions and/or desired outcomes.)

Yours Aye

Mark H
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      Today, 10:53 AM   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampant View Post
Again - context is king - I was responding to SakhirM4 who said that he was Air Force, as if that meant anything. Perhaps read the context before commenting next time, eh buddy?

Although, to be fair, I did also say that I saluted SakhirM4 for his principles, so mentioning my own Air Force background showed that my salute to him *Meant Something*, not just an arbitrary salute, but a solemn acknowledgement between "like minds" (even though we clearly don't agree on everything.)
Yep, context is king, as if that means anything. Been awhile since I have seen so much arrogance.
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      Today, 11:25 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Yep, context is king, as if that means anything. Been awhile since I have seen so much arrogance.
Keep saying those words.

Clearly, context *IS* king. You know this. And exactly why this thread has arisen. Context is the fundamental *key*.

The underlying context is the existence of a 2nd amendment... If there were no 2nd amendment in existence - do you think there'd be a strong argument *not* to have a more robust case for the control of firearms.

The answer, of course, is that - NO - there wouldn't really be a credible argument not to have some semblance of control over who can legal own and use firearms. It always filters back to the context of the existence of a 2nd amendment.

If there were no 2nd amendment, people such as yourself, principled people... they would not blindly stick with the principle behind there being a 2nd amendment to guide their principled viewpoint.

You have a license to drive a car. One that requires learning, testing and then insurance and regulation... So allow this to guide your principles in the absence of a 2nd amendment. I'm not talking about abolishing the 2nd - I'm discussing how people would not be preconditioned if there hadn't ever been a 2nd amendment in the first instance. Again - this is called context.

If there were no 2nd amendment - it hadn't ever existed - principled people such as yourself would hold no truck with the state looking at how to better control firearm ownership. Particularly in the aftermath of events that might precipitate the state to investigate options for preventing further aftermaths. Hell, you don't own a firearm, so it bears no real relevance to you. You will probably say otherwise, because this discussion is steeped in the context of there being a 2nd amendment right now and this is the context in which you have formed your opinion and your principles.

Nobody is saying "ban" guns - just take a view on how better to control their ownership and use if there were no pre-existing context of 2nd amendment in the background.

It's always about the context. Or will you incorrectly label that as arrogant as well, just to justify your not wanting to observe or acknowledge a credible point of view?

Yours Aye

Mark H
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      Today, 11:31 AM   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampant View Post
Keep saying those words.

Clearly, context *IS* king. You know this. And exactly why this thread has arisen. Context is the fundamental *key*.

The underlying context is the existence of a 2nd amendment... If there were no 2nd amendment in existence - do you think there'd be a strong argument *not* to have a more robust case for the control of firearms.

The answer, of course, is that - NO - there wouldn't really be a credible argument not to have some semblance of control over who can legal own and use firearms. It always filters back to the context of the existence of a 2nd amendment.

If there were no 2nd amendment, people such as yourself, principled people... they would not blindly stick with the principle behind there being a 2nd amendment to guide their principled viewpoint.

You have a license to drive a car. One that requires learning, testing and then insurance and regulation... So allow this to guide your principles in the absence of a 2nd amendment. I'm not talking about abolishing the 2nd - I'm discussing how people would not be preconditioned if there hadn't ever been a 2nd amendment in the first instance. Again - this is called context.

If there were no 2nd amendment - it hadn't ever existed - principled people such as yourself would hold no truck with the state looking at how to better control firearm ownership. Particularly in the aftermath of events that might precipitate the state to investigate options for preventing further aftermaths. Hell, you don't own a firearm, so it bears no real relevance to you. You will probably say otherwise, because this discussion is steeped in the context of there being a 2nd amendment right now and this is the context in which you have formed your opinion and your principles.

Nobody is saying "ban" guns - just take a view on how better to control their ownership and use if there were no pre-existing context of 2nd amendment in the background.

It's always about the context. Or will you incorrectly label that as arrogant as well, just to justify your not wanting to observe or acknowledge a credible point of view?

Yours Aye

Mark H
Repeat my post #318

Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
We have laws that regulate guns. You could start reading here:

http://www.dw.com/en/8-facts-about-g...-us/a-40816418

Do we need more? Maybe.
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      Today, 01:38 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Chicago!!

Murder capital of the world! Since they restricted gun laws in that state state I cant write or pronounce (ill I noise. That's how it sounds!).

I'm not very good in geography but since I live next door to Russia, and our drugs come from there and the great work of our border officers keeps those numbers relative low, I can only assume that if I wanted to go nuts in Chicago (which I have do in an other way but violence) I might just drive there from lets say any of the 5states bordering it or maybe even from Canada!
Yes the gangs from South-side Chicago.. dont really obey the laws.. so liberals can write all the laws they want.. theyre as good as toilet paper on the South-side
Of course alot of the murders are gang on gang.. so imo the police have little interest in curtailing that
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      Today, 01:44 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
Yes the gangs from South-side Chicago.. dont really obey the laws.. so liberals can write all the laws they want.. theyre as good as toilet paper on the South-side
Of course alot of the murders are gang on gang.. so imo the police have little interest in curtailing that
I was actually joking when I wrote that but you have a point. Gangs seldom are formed to uphold laws and order. If only we had programs that worked towards preventing gangs from recruiting efforts.
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      Today, 01:52 PM   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
I was actually joking when I wrote that but you have a point. Gangs seldom are formed to uphold laws and order. If only we had programs that worked towards preventing gangs from recruiting efforts.
Someone should make that a law!!!
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