Problem Matching Crimson Red Paint

[EandS]

We have a 2010 Z4 s35i with A61 Crimson Red paint and have been trying to repair two straight pin head (slightly smaller) size chips close to the front edge of the hood. A BMW Paint Stick set 172 Crimson Red 51 910 427 870 was obtained from the dealer. It includes a small container of the Crimson Red “Basecoat” and a container of “Clear lacquer”. The instructions indicate, as one might expect, to first apply the basecoat and after it has dried approximately 30 minutes to apply a top coat of the clear lacquer. The Langka “Complete Paint Chip Repair Kit” was obtained to facilitate the repair. The kit worked as advertised and helped produce a smooth result.

The problem is the color doesn’t match! It’s a noticeably darker tone than the finish on the car. The Crimson Red on the car has almost an orangish tint to it but the touch up is more of a deep, true red perhaps with a slightly purple cast. The clear coat has no effect on the color. Also, the Langka product is not affecting the color, because the touch up paint was tested separately without using that and it produced the same result. Also tested the touch up paint on other materials (not on the car) and still got exactly the same result. Remembered the sales person commenting the color of the paint under the hood (which looks different from the exterior finish) appears the way it does because it’s just the basecoat without the clear coat applied. Consequently, tried the touch up paint on the fender well but it didn’t match that either. Also tried mixing the basecoat with the clear coat before applying it to various surfaces and that didn’t match. It should be noted Langka suggests this “mixing” for some situations, but at least for this BMW touch up kit that’s not very practical – the two fluids are essentially immiscible (remember your basic chemistry course).

Suggestions would be appreciated.

Best regards,
Ed

[rmorin49]

Doublecheck to make sure you have the correct color. There are several different red shades offered by BMW.

[Roadstergal]

I had mentioned that I got my first stone chip on my new Z4 within the first 100 miles on the lower part of the front bumper which prompted me to get the 3M put on in a hurry. I bought the same touch up paint kit from BMW in Orion Silver. I had the dealer touch up the chip before they applied the 3M. They used the kit, although they stated that they could mix up a batch of paint. He said either or would produce the same results. I had him use the kit and although it wasn't 100% a perfect match, it was indeed very close and with the 3M applied you would need a magnifying glass to notice it.

As I mentioined in an earlier post, this is my 4th Z. The first two, I did not have the 3M applied and both cars were pock marked with chips by the time that I traded them in. BMW is notorious for having paint that easily chips. I stayed away from being behind trucks on the highway, did not follow cars closely and I have a second vehicle for bad weather driving and I still got loads of chips.

I didn't take delivery of my Monaco Blue without the 3M. I don't know what I was thinking when I drove off without having it installed on this car, but I was back there having it put on before I drove another 100 miles.

I don't know why your touch up paint is so off, but they buffed the touched up spot with an orbital. Have your dealer re-do it for you and have the 3M applied right after the paint dries like I did. You won't be sorry.

[Memphis1]

roadstergal, you getting royalties from 3M that we don't know about.

[Memphis1]

Ed, i know it's kinda obvious question but i'm gonna ask anyway.

did you shake the touch up paint really good??

did you use the "blob" bottle?

did you buff the area afterwards?

[EandS]

Doublecheck to make sure you have the correct color. There are several different red shades offered by BMW.

At this point I’m beginning to wonder if there’s more than one Crimson Red. The touch up kit, as noted in my original post, says it’s for that color.

Ed, i know it's kinda obvious question but i'm gonna ask anyway.

It’s usually a good idea to explore and consider the obvious – your questions are good ones!

did you shake the touch up paint really good??

Definitely did that.

did you use the "blob" bottle?

Assuming you mean from the Langka kit, yes. Also tried the paint without using anything from that kit and it made no difference to the color.

did you buff the area afterwards?

No, if you mean using a mechanical device to do so. Yes, if you mean buffing the undercoat and then the subsequently applied lacquer coat by hand.

All the comments thus far and hopefully more that will be received are appreciated.

Best regards,
Ed

[jparnes1]

What's this 3M stuff you're talking about, Roadstergal? Sounds like some kind of protectant.

[SHADOW4]

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...rotection/Film

http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345402

[Roadstergal]

Originally Posted by memphis2012

roadstergal, you getting royalties from 3M that we don't know about.

lol! Ha! I wish!

[EandS]

Thought it might be interesting to show the touch up color in relation to the actual Crimson Red finish. The color "swatches" below are from a single photograph where a sample of the touch up paint was laid on the car finish.



Best regards,
Ed

[juhap]

Originally Posted by EandS

The color "swatches" below are from a single photograph where a sample of the touch up paint was laid on the car finish

Yeah there is a slight difference

I'd drive to the dealer where you bought the stick from, show them the car and go "WTF?".

[Vintage]

An indirect answer to your question of "are there different Crimson Reds?" When I recently bought touch-up paint for my X5 35d (Alpine White), there were 3 Alpine Whites - Alpine White I, II, and III. The one sold to me was based on the VIN to make sure I received the correct shade of alpine White - I know this sounds a little crazy but true. Also, the 3m product suggested by Roadstergal is AWESOME and I highly recommend it - No, I receive no benefit from this plug and I do not work for 3m; it just a great product. A quick picture to show you the front hood covered in 3m and the "line," which is not visible past about 5 feet from the car.

[EandS]

Thought it would be good to provide an update about the chipping problem and the touchup paint. The dealer’s staff couldn’t have been nicer about the problem and quite readily agreed the touchup paint absolutely didn’t match the Crimson Red finish. They’ve ordered a new touchup kit and free of charge are going to fix all the chips that have appeared. Then the 3M clear film will be applied to the front of the car, on the rocker panels, the door edges, a small section behind the rear wheels, the backs of the mirrors and also in the area underneath the door handles. That ought to offer some protection. Mind you some enterprising genius ought to find a way to just shrink wrap the whole car with something like the 3M film.

Apart from being a little facetious with regard to the preceding, I must say I have never owned a car with paint so susceptible to chipping. And that includes Cadillac XLR’s, Escalades, and a CTS which have flat surfaces on their front ends that are much more perpendicularly inclined to the pavement. In fact, with many thousands of miles collectively on those vehicles they had almost no chips.

But the Z4 is another matter altogether. At 6,000 miles there are probably about 10 noticeable marks on the front and those have appeared one at a time. Something very strange about these impact marks is the paint is not cleanly chipped away like one would normally expect. Instead the paint is broken through to the surface below, but pushed up into a “wrinkle” on the top edge of the impact spot rather than breaking away. It gives the impression the paint is soft and not cured to a hard finish. It’s left me wondering if this is characteristic of the paint on Z4’s, or maybe the Crimson Red paint, or perhaps just my car.

While complaining about the paint on my car I want to mention one other issue. It seems that BMW doesn’t see fit to clearcoat the paintwork beneath the hood and, at least in the case of Crimson Red, it looks awful – just like red primer – nothing like the exterior finish color. Hate seeing that every time I raise the hood. OK, I’m finished complaining! Looking forward to your comments.

Best regards,
Ed

[MDLFCS]

I had this problem with mine chipping easily with 40 miles on the odometer in August last year. I had one chip that the dealer didn't apply well as I would have liked. I had the 3M professional apply the touchup with Langka on. I did not have a chance to see the results before the 3M, but it was less noticeable with the 3M on.

However, the 3M did not completely cover the entire front bumper, like the grilles, the silver trims on both sides. There is always an one or two mm or so not being covered on the edges. Same with the hood.

I thought the underhood paint would be better not having a clearcoat as they would not show scratches easily as sometimes the techs would not be careful.

I have an Escalade and have no chips on the hood with 21K miles on it. However, I do have a small chip-size on the grille on the painted section. I think it deflected a rock, and pushed the paint a bit like the frosting on a cake. However, the windshield is full of cracks and chips.

I did have a whole bunch of chips on front end on my 98 blue Eddie Bauer Explorer after two years, but had none on my old 09 black Limited Expedition after 4500 miles driven on pebble-filled streets. I heard that Ford made the paint to be a bit more chip resistant in recent years.

Those touch up paints will never match perfectly in my experience, especially with the metallic paints. Having a clearcoat touch up helps to match it more, but not on the dot. The 3m makes it not as noticeable, but with a sharp eye, you can see it.

It would be cool if BMW can apply the 3M fresh at the factory as an option!

[riccis]

Originally Posted by EandS

Instead the paint is broken through to the surface below, but pushed up into a “wrinkle” on the top edge of the impact spot rather than breaking away. It gives the impression the paint is soft and not cured to a hard finish. It’s left me wondering if this is characteristic of the paint on Z4’s, or maybe the Crimson Red paint, or perhaps just my car.

While complaining about the paint on my car I want to mention one other issue. It seems that BMW doesn’t see fit to clearcoat the paintwork beneath the hood and, at least in the case of Crimson Red, it looks awful – just like red primer – nothing like the exterior finish color. Hate seeing that every time I raise the hood.

Best regards,
Ed

Exactly the same here. But mines Sapphire Black.

[Silver-Bolt]

There is very little chance a touch up pen will match. Factory paint has a tint range the goes from light, ideal, and dark that would all be considered within acceptable allowances. White, black, and red are some of the most difficult colors to tint match properly. Professional painters have a difficult time doing this. If you go to the body shop for front fender damage that requires paint work, a portion of your door with get painted as well. This blends the new paint with the old giving an illusion of perfectly matching the color.

[flpnout]

Originally Posted by EandS

Mind you some enterprising genius ought to find a way to just shrink wrap the whole car with something like the 3M film.

Not sure about your area, but there are people here in the Bay Area that have their whole car wrapped (usually M6 and Porsche onwers). Here is a link and they also have videos of film they use. This is where I had my entire hood, bumpers, and mirrors wrapped. I'm sure you may have some 3m folks in your area that may offer custom wrapping.

http://www.premiermobilegroup.com/gallery_bmw.shtml