Turbo upgrade.

[Constant.S]

Does anyone thinking on doing a turbo upgrade on their Z? I am possibly going for the new Stage 3 Vargas twin turbo upgrade sooon when the pricing and full tech specs are anounced.
Check how much power they are making with just the turbo upgrade on 91 pump.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=816141

[Asbjorn]

So they are able to run 24-25psi on these turbos. I wonder how massive the turbo lag is.

If my turbos die before 100.000km, I could be interested in an upgrade. Not so much for the extra power, but for the extra reliability. I would keep my boost below 15psi, because I do not think going from 400hp to 600hp would make my life any happier overall.

Unlike with my previous cars, with the Z4 I never really have that feeling where I wished it would go a little faster. OK, maybe when the wheels spin in 1st and 2nd, but I still get a rush when I dare to go WOT in 3rd.

Also I am not sure why I would allow 500-600hp to go through a DCT box that costs close 75% of a brand new 120i to replace here in China.

[jts1981]

I would love to hear how your progress goes. The Vargas turbo sounds like a great option. I've been following the E90 thread for awhile now and it seems very promising. Have you read anything about an install, or seen any videos or pics?

I'm only 800 miles into my car so I have quite a while to go before I have to worry about new turbos.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Asbjorn

I do not think going from 400hp to 600hp would make my life any happier overall. .

You should drive a 3000lb / 600hp car to validate that assumption..

Power is good and more is better!

[Asbjorn]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

You should drive a 3000lb / 600hp car to validate that assumption..

Power is good and more is better!

I am surprised that here in 2013 some people still think like this.

Of course, if we could easily lower the weight of our cars by 25-50% and increase the hp by 25-50% with no cost, problems or headaches, then everyone would do that. But you can always find something faster, and eventually you would have to switch to a superbike or F1 car.

Here is why you do not want to or need to do that

1) The car would start to fall apart. And when your car breaks down you will be unhappy. One thing is the cost of repair, another is having to wait while the car is in. Also it will cost more just to run and maintain.

2) I tried the 997 turbo coupe just before buying the Z4. It was definitely less fun to drive because it grips too well and its AWD. Go past its limits and you will probably die. At least I didn't dare to. All it can do is fast acceleration and cornering, and that feeling of sheer G-forces does nothing extra to me. The excitement is already there with less power, and below 100kmh the extra G-forces just add the same sort of annoying feeling that braking hard does. It strains your neck, and don't tell me that is a nice feeling. Because it just isn't.
OK I admit it would add some extra fun when accelerating past 150kmh, but how often do you do that? I also admit that it would generate some pleasure killing other cars from a stop light, and a 997 turbo would kill almost anything. But then one day you would meet a GT-R... or a superbike... and then you would loose, and then you would feel bad for weeks...

3) In other words, you do not need more hp to go sideways. But a GT-86 does, so that is why a car like the Z4 is exactly right. Its powerful, front-engined, and has rear-wheel drive and almost 50/50 weight distribution. Another 200hp would just end up in wheelspin anywhere below 100kmh.

4) When your car has enough hp to make you go "holy cow this is exciting" then that is enough, and the rest of the fun must come from elsewhere. Such as learning driving technique, ie controlling oversteer and understeer. I drove a dirt motorbike for 5 years. Also I was a pilot student for 2 years. Driving a dirtbike on sand or flying and airplane, half of the fun is actually learning how to to master the machines in different situations. A very small part of the fun comes from the G-forces. Most of the time they just make you sick.
If I had to choose I would prefer you gave me a great passenger over 200 extra hp and associated reliability and cost issues. Or a nice location. Or no traffic jams. Good music. A track within 1 hours driver. Nice weather. Admiration from other road users, pedestrians and so on...

5) This speaks for itself (jeremy clarksons "powered up" dvd) http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzIyMDc1NjE2.html

6) Also try and look at the videos of Hammond or Clarkson driving F1 cars. Then try and see if you could convince me that they were having fun. Then look at the episode where they tried autocross in rather horrible cars.

Ok, you probably already knew 90% of this, but I had fun writing it nonetheless.

[army_men]

Originally Posted by Asbjorn

I am surprised that here in 2013 some people still think like this.

Of course, if we could easily lower the weight of our cars by 25-50% and increase the hp by 25-50% with no cost, problems or headaches, then everyone would do that. But you can always find something faster, and eventually you would have to switch to a superbike or F1 car.

Here is why you do not want to or need to do that

1) The car would start to fall apart. And when your car breaks down you will be unhappy. One thing is the cost of repair, another is having to wait while the car is in. Also it will cost more just to run and maintain.

2) I tried the 997 turbo coupe just before buying the Z4. It was definitely less fun to drive because it grips too well and its AWD. Go past its limits and you will probably die. At least I didn't dare to. All it can do is fast acceleration and cornering, and that feeling of sheer G-forces does nothing extra to me. The excitement is already there with less power, and below 100kmh the extra G-forces just add the same sort of annoying feeling that braking hard does. It strains your neck, and don't tell me that is a nice feeling. Because it just isn't.
OK I admit it would add some extra fun when accelerating past 150kmh, but how often do you do that? I also admit that it would generate some pleasure killing other cars from a stop light, and a 997 turbo would kill almost anything. But then one day you would meet a GT-R... or a superbike... and then you would loose, and then you would feel bad for weeks...

3) In other words, you do not need more hp to go sideways. But a GT-86 does, so that is why a car like the Z4 is exactly right. Its powerful, front-engined, and has rear-wheel drive and almost 50/50 weight distribution. Another 200hp would just end up in wheelspin anywhere below 100kmh.

4) When your car has enough hp to make you go "holy cow this is exciting" then that is enough, and the rest of the fun must come from elsewhere. Such as learning driving technique, ie controlling oversteer and understeer. I drove a dirt motorbike for 5 years. Also I was a pilot student for 2 years. Driving a dirtbike on sand or flying and airplane, half of the fun is actually learning how to to master the machines in different situations. A very small part of the fun comes from the G-forces. Most of the time they just make you sick.
If I had to choose I would prefer you gave me a great passenger over 200 extra hp and associated reliability and cost issues. Or a nice location. Or no traffic jams. Good music. A track within 1 hours driver. Nice weather. Admiration from other road users, pedestrians and so on...

5) This speaks for itself (jeremy clarksons "powered up" dvd) http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzIyMDc1NjE2.html

6) Also try and look at the videos of Hammond or Clarkson driving F1 cars. Then try and see if you could convince me that they were having fun. Then look at the episode where they tried autocross in rather horrible cars.

Ok, you probably already knew 90% of this, but I had fun writing it nonetheless.

why are you so damn convincing! well put!

[nicknaz]

Well, after I drove a 3000lb / 600 hp car I was DEFINITELY happier

OP, I recommend that you look into a purpose built car such as a Radical or a faster stock car rather than going down the heavily modified road.

I've tried going modified and it can really be a huge PITA from unexpected component failures and definitely a $$$ suck having to do support mods, particularly upgrading the gearbox to handle the power.

[jts1981]

Originally Posted by Asbjorn

I am surprised that here in 2013 some people still think like this.

1) The car would start to fall apart. And when your car breaks down you will be unhappy. One thing is the cost of repair, another is having to wait while the car is in. Also it will cost more just to run and maintain.

Sorry Asbjorn, but with full respect if you think like this then this thread was probably not meant for you.

People that like to work on their cars and love having something different do not count receipts. True cars dont, its about the passion of the build.

And if the OP wants to do track days then yes the xtra hp would be a lot more fun.

And btw the track days are different attitudes for each event. The Porsche club for example os very technical but some other track days are more laid back and fun. They cheer on drifts and sideways action where as Porsche frown upon it.

Like you said you think the g force feeling is a bad thing, and don't see the need for hp and torque so clearly this thread is not for you.


To each their own. Good luck to OP on your build.

[jts1981]

btw, these guys look like they are having a ton of fun...

http://www.gtspirit.com/2012/12/29/v...-city-streets/

[Asbjorn]

Originally Posted by jts1981

Sorry Asbjorn, but with full respect if you think like this then this thread was probably not meant for you.

People that like to work on their cars and love having something different do not count receipts. True cars dont, its about the passion of the build.

Good point. At bit like writing on ZPOST that we should all buy Fords instead. But I totally understand that modding, in and by itself, is fun.

I still think it is relevant to know if the turbo lag is significantly increased. Because then we will know if this is a good option for added reliability while running only double the psi of OEM (ie around 15psi).

[ZheHbKa]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

You should drive a 3000lb / 600hp car to validate that assumption..

Power is good and more is better!

+1

[Drew@Sonic MS]

Has anyone actually destroyed the DCT yet? From my knowledge no one has managed to actually break the DCT unit yet...

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Drew@Sonic MS

Has anyone actually destroyed the DCT yet? From my knowledge no one has managed to actually break the DCT unit yet...

There was a thread on this forum about a Z4 owner needing a DCT replacement...

I also don't get the sense there are that many heavily modified DCT cars.. most of the ones making big power seem to be traditional manual with aftermarket clutch.

[Drew@Sonic MS]

That's right, I just don't recall how his DCT broke... I know improper driving can harm the DCT as well, not that I'm saying that about the mentioned forum member. I'm curious as to whether or not it broke from too much power. I believe we have the same DCT as the M3s and there's plenty of those making high power. Seems like it's highly possible, just a matter of how much $.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Drew@Sonic MS

That's right, I just don't recall how his DCT broke... I know improper driving can harm the DCT as well, not that I'm saying that about the mentioned forum member. I'm curious as to whether or not it broke from too much power. I believe we have the same DCT as the M3s and there's plenty of those making high power. Seems like it's highly possible, just a matter of how much $.

If I remember the discussion correctly, he had a lot of mods on his car so could have been power.

What's the torque curve like on those M3s though? The few threads I saw seemed people were going SC and that isn't as much torque as a heavily modded N54.... power was coming from a bit more torque a high RPM.

As an aside, my brother has a PDK Cayman S and that was starting to show DCT faults after 4 yrs. It was stock but driven hard and tracked fairly often.

Personally, I wouldn't keep a DCT car out of warranty, especially if it was modded.

I'd rather replace a clutch on a traditional manual than the entire gearbox...

[Drew@Sonic MS]

Ahhh makes sense then. Hopefully I have the funds to try and break the DCT soon haha... Warranty is almost up so if anything does happen I'll just upgrade the clutch.

[JasonT]

Originally Posted by Asbjorn

I am surprised that here in 2013 some people still think like this.

Of course, if we could easily lower the weight of our cars by 25-50% and increase the hp by 25-50% with no cost, problems or headaches, then everyone would do that. But you can always find something faster, and eventually you would have to switch to a superbike or F1 car.

Here is why you do not want to or need to do that

1) The car would start to fall apart. And when your car breaks down you will be unhappy. One thing is the cost of repair, another is having to wait while the car is in. Also it will cost more just to run and maintain.

2) I tried the 997 turbo coupe just before buying the Z4. It was definitely less fun to drive because it grips too well and its AWD. Go past its limits and you will probably die. At least I didn't dare to. All it can do is fast acceleration and cornering, and that feeling of sheer G-forces does nothing extra to me. The excitement is already there with less power, and below 100kmh the extra G-forces just add the same sort of annoying feeling that braking hard does. It strains your neck, and don't tell me that is a nice feeling. Because it just isn't.
OK I admit it would add some extra fun when accelerating past 150kmh, but how often do you do that? I also admit that it would generate some pleasure killing other cars from a stop light, and a 997 turbo would kill almost anything. But then one day you would meet a GT-R... or a superbike... and then you would loose, and then you would feel bad for weeks...

3) In other words, you do not need more hp to go sideways. But a GT-86 does, so that is why a car like the Z4 is exactly right. Its powerful, front-engined, and has rear-wheel drive and almost 50/50 weight distribution. Another 200hp would just end up in wheelspin anywhere below 100kmh.

4) When your car has enough hp to make you go "holy cow this is exciting" then that is enough, and the rest of the fun must come from elsewhere. Such as learning driving technique, ie controlling oversteer and understeer. I drove a dirt motorbike for 5 years. Also I was a pilot student for 2 years. Driving a dirtbike on sand or flying and airplane, half of the fun is actually learning how to to master the machines in different situations. A very small part of the fun comes from the G-forces. Most of the time they just make you sick.
If I had to choose I would prefer you gave me a great passenger over 200 extra hp and associated reliability and cost issues. Or a nice location. Or no traffic jams. Good music. A track within 1 hours driver. Nice weather. Admiration from other road users, pedestrians and so on...

5) This speaks for itself (jeremy clarksons "powered up" dvd) http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzIyMDc1NjE2.html

6) Also try and look at the videos of Hammond or Clarkson driving F1 cars. Then try and see if you could convince me that they were having fun. Then look at the episode where they tried autocross in rather horrible cars.

Ok, you probably already knew 90% of this, but I had fun writing it nonetheless.

+1.

Totally agree with you.

[entrepreneur177]

I want to get this party going again...


So did anyone upgraded turbos yet?

[ManiacGT]

My concern over upping power in this way is the temp inside the cyls. Surely at these kind of pressures you risk melting the pistons/head/rings etc?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ManiacGT

My concern over upping power in this way is the temp inside the cyls. Surely at these kind of pressures you risk melting the pistons/head/rings etc?

Good tune and enough fuel mods can make more boost happen

@entrepreneur177 I haven't seen any N54 outside the 335 and 135 community go with the upgraded turbo. The E89 is a $ platform. Not many parts designed for it so there is custom work involved

I have been watching these threads too since I don't have the $ to be a pioneer but am always interested in the idea of more power and following a proven path to huge HP.