Z4 35i retains the N54 for 2011 models...

[Alext]

Here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338908

But how long before it gets the new 'superior' N55?

Does it retain the N54 as they are still developing DCT for the N55 or perhaps because the Z4 has just been released with the N54 and BMW doesnt want to piss off customers? I think the latter is more likely.

[Oh Captain My Captain]

Originally Posted by Alext

Here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338908

But how long before it gets the new 'superior' N55?

Does it retain the N54 as they are still developing DCT for the N55 or perhaps because the Z4 has just been released with the N54 and BMW doesnt want to piss off customers? I think the latter is more likely.

N55 may be the newer engine but it still has to prove itself as superior. As mentioned on an E90 post, and I paraphrase, "the sportier models will not be getting this engine for some time." I think that says something about BMW's thoughts about the roll out. I for one am glad to have the N54 engine in my 2010 Z4.....No Regrets.

[zEdP]

I can imagine that the development of the N55 was not finished on the moment BMW made the decision which engines should be integrated and/or could not be finished when the testing phase of the E89 started.

You can count on that the N55 will be introduced in the E89 redesign model in spring 2012. I’m curious if all engine will be replaced. A 4 cylinder turbo replacing the 25i N52B25 or even 30i N52B30?

This makes me think of the E85 that was introduced with the M54 engine. One year after introduction of the E85, BMW introduced the N52 engine (630Ci). The N52 was finally introduced in the E85/86 my 2006.


EdP

[teagueAMX]

I'm with Captain and others on the n55 - court is still out with it's single "twin spool" turbo.

One of the big features of the n54 was the two smaller turbos, with less mass and less spool up time. The idea being that the smaller turbos would be more responsive across the entire rev band.

No doubt valvetronic will help eliminate some lag at lower rpm, but the mass of a single, larger turbo will be noticeable and it will be slight slower, which is fine for a sedate GT, but IMO not good for the Z4.

Porsche admits to having same issue with it's larger turbos - their solution is to stay with the larger turbos, eliminate the waste gates, and use variable turbo geometry to control the flow of exhaust gasses. Supposed to be the best of all worlds. But if you read honest reviews (same guys that will talk about the 911's oversteer) or watch 'tube driving tests, there is noticeable lag in spite of these measures.

[Memphis1]

I've been reading the posts on the E90 forum too and I don't understand why everyone is getting bent out of shape for this.

the N55 has the same specs on paper as the N54 and it's claimed that the N54 is underrated where the N55 is not. Also I would think the N55 would limit tuners because of a single turbo geometry versus the N54's, all we need is a $600 PNP and we get better numbers than the future S model. reliability and quality claims hold no ground, as mentioned before Porsche has proven this. 20kg lighter is irrelevant in a one and half ton car, better gas mileage is also irrelevant if you spent $70k for a car and you currently drive like you stole the car (hopefully 99% of you drive like this). also 200 rpm is NOT going to be noticeable. What BMW is doing is "perceived obsolescence". just enjoy your Z4.

oh and just be aware that there will be Trolls throwing threads up like AlexT just did with words like "superior", just to get a rise out of you. I would like to think that grown adults that spent $70k on their Z wont get caught up in pissing matches on forums.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by memphis2012

I've been reading the posts on the E90 forum too and I don't understand why everyone is getting bent out of shape for this.

the N55 has the same specs on paper as the N54 and it's claimed that the N54 is underrated where the N55 is not. Also I would think the N55 would limit tuners because of a single turbo geometry versus the N54's, all we need is a $600 PNP and we get better numbers than the future S model. reliability and quality claims hold no ground, as mentioned before Porsche has proven this. 20kg lighter is irrelevant in a one and half ton car, better gas mileage is also irrelevant if you spent $70k for a car and you currently drive like you stole the car (hopefully 99% of you drive like this). also 200 rpm is NOT going to be noticeable. What BMW is doing is "perceived obsolescence". just enjoy your Z4.

oh and just be aware that there will be Trolls throwing threads up like AlexT just did with words like "superior", just to get a rise out of you. I would like to think that grown adults that spent $70k on their Z wont get caught up in pissing matches on forums.

Good points.

[Alext]

Pretty strong words there Memphis. I'll take the high road and ignore them...

Just as a bit of background, I already own a N54 equipped car and am quite aware of what it is/is not capable of. I think you would have to prove that -in reality- the N55 is NOT a superior engine, as on paper it certainly is. There are factors like whether the N55 feels better at high RPM (the N54 feels and sounds a little muted), the noise it makes etc will also come into the mix. We shall soon know in a few months in any case as the BMW community will be tearing it apart I am sure.

One of the reasons why I post this is that I am debating on whether to make a purchase on a N54 equipped Z4 or wait for the N55. If I purchase the N54 now and the N55-equipped Z4 pops up next year it will surely devalue (not just in monetary terms either) the N54 in my country if the N55 is superior.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Alext

Just as a bit of background, I already own a N54 equipped car and am quite aware of what it is/is not capable of. I think you would have to prove that -in reality- the N55 is NOT a superior engine, as on paper it certainly is. There are factors like whether the N55 feels better at high RPM (the N54 feels and sounds a little muted), the noise it makes etc will also come into the mix. We shall soon know in a few months in any case as the BMW community will be tearing it apart I am sure.

One of the reasons why I post this is that I am debating on whether to make a purchase on a N54 equipped Z4 or wait for the N55. If I purchase the N54 now and the N55-equipped Z4 pops up next year it will surely devalue (not just in monetary terms either) the N54 in my country if the N55 is superior.

For the time being, BMW engineering and track testing employees are the only ones capable of knowing which engine is superior. Other than that it’s matter of speculation and opinion, rather than “analysis".

Based on BMWs marketing information, the n55 has one slight advantage, and that is its torque curve starts at a slightly lower rpm than the n54. BMWs claims the n55 tq begins at 1200 RPM (barely above idle), whereas the n54 begins at 1500, a difference of 300 which is relatively meaningless. It is a known fact that in the automotive industry, a typical automatic transmission torque converter stall speed is in the range of 1800–2000 RPM. A MT take off RPM is typically in that range, too. That’s considered the RPM range for the engine to begin making useful power for normal driving.

The way the n55 stacks up for me is that is has one big disadvantage and that’s the single turbo vs the twin of the n54, but time will tell. Of course, I never enjoyed speculating about who was the greatest baseball player either.

[Alext]

Some more information on the N54 vs N55: looks like the N55 will be a winner.

Also there is speculation that the upcoming 'M1' ..the M engineered 1 coupe with use a special version of the N55 with twin dualscrolls.

http://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/att...hmentid=340547

http://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/att...hmentid=340548

[BlueZ4AZ]

Initial reaction: I could care less what BMW does with the engine.

I can't think of one reason why any 2009/2010 Z4 35i owner would be pissed off if BMW put a newer engine in the 2011. So, I don't think that has anything to do with BMW's decision.

I don't care today what enegine the 2011 will have, and I certainly won't care when I go to sell my car in 3 years+\-, as it will have absolutely no effect on resale value, since people that purchase 3-4 year old used cars could care less about the slight differences in engines from year to year. The fact cars change from year to year is ALREADY FACTORED INTO THE DEPRECIATION SCHEDULE

Cars continue to evolve. It's a fact of life. If anyone is purchasing a new car today and thinks the Mfg will still be selling the exact same model with the exact same technology 2-3 years down the road, they are sadly mistaken and need a dose of reality.

NEXT QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Alext]

BlueZ4AZ: you are correct to an extent. But dont take it to heart, this post is not directed to 'piss off' current owners on this forum...far too many are taking it personally imo....the reason why I am *discussing* this here is partly for the benefit of potential owners like myself who want to make the most informed purchase decision. Dont forget I have a N54 too.

Looks like I might sit on the fence for a while. At least wait until some of the 135 owners review the new N55, as I myself would prefer the N55 at this stage.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Alext

Some more information on the N54 vs N55: looks like the N55 will be a winner.

Also there is speculation that the upcoming 'M1' ..the M engineered 1 coupe with use a special version of the N55 with twin dualscrolls.

http://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/att...hmentid=340547

http://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/att...hmentid=340548

Maybe you just stumbled over the data, but it been out since this discussion started.

Originally Posted by Alext

BlueZ4AZ: you are correct to an extent. But dont take it to heart, this post is not directed to 'piss off' current owners on this forum...far too many are taking it personally imo....the reason why I am *discussing* this here is partly for the benefit of potential owners like myself who want to make the most informed purchase decision. Dont forget I have a N54 too.

Looks like I might sit on the fence for a while. At least wait until some of the 135 owners review the new N55, as I myself would prefer the N55 at this stage.

Good - stay on the fence - that's where trolls belong!

There's a number of us that say, the n55 may turn out to be superior, but until there's concrete info beside BMW's marketing hype, we'll wait and see. That's not denial - that's saying show us something solid like real world performance reviews and seat-of-the-pants experience with the engine in a real car on a real road, and we'll believe. But you have to keep coming back with this "n55 is superior" crap like you got something to prove.

And No! Your approach hasn't been to help anyone else, but for you to promote your own "superior" attitude about day vs night, right vs left, up vs down, in vs out, etc.

FYI - IMO, BMW like to promote themselves as a special technology company with such things as Valvetronic, their weird double knuckle front suspension, and few others, that I'd admit are unique but remind a little bit of snake oil. It's all too funny when they promote Efficient Dynamics in a 4,000+ lb car. They ought to cut their hyper-drive marketing budget, save some of that R&D for real world technologies that people need like a better gps navigation system, and then trim some of the fat off their vehicles.

Maybe they'd realize what everyone else already knows: a 3,000 car runs a lot quicker, with less fuel and is more fun to drive than a 4,000 or 5,000 lbs car with a Efficient Dynamics Valvetronic system. Whoopie that it achieves a net torque increase at 1200 RPM - it's still pushing around a 4,000 lbs 335i in cab trim. Congratulations because you just won the booby prize for somehow thinking that's significant.

Keep that in mind while you're trying to promote a "superior" engine.

FWIW - just my 2 cents

[Alext]

Let's not get all hot under the collar now. I'm not going to get into any arguments here on this internet(!) forum.This will be my last post on this subject.

Yes, we shall see...

[BlueZ4AZ]

Originally Posted by Alext

BlueZ4AZ: you are correct to an extent. But dont take it to heart, this post is not directed to 'piss off' current owners on this forum...far too many are taking it personally imo....the reason why I am *discussing* this here is partly for the benefit of potential owners like myself who want to make the most informed purchase decision. Dont forget I have a N54 too.

Looks like I might sit on the fence for a while. At least wait until some of the 135 owners review the new N55, as I myself would prefer the N55 at this stage.

I do not believe you initiated the post to piss anyone off. I think others may have overlooked the fact you put the word superior in quotes, which I took to mean you were simply quoting what others have said and that it was not your personal opinion.

You asked if BMW decided not to place the new engine in the 2011 so as not to piss off current owners and I responded with my thoughts on that. It was nothing more than that. Nothing personal taken, nothing personal given. The "NEXT QUESTION!!" remark was more of an attempt at humor than anything else.

[teagueAMX]

Alext, I apologize for being short tempered.

[Alext]

No problems guys. No hard feelings