Why did BMW do nothing for small overlap crash test?!

[PennSt8]

Actually, I don't find the Volvo design strange at all. If you take a look at the S60, S80 and XC90 it appears that Volvo's engineers have designed the front suspension to break away. It's actually rather clever if you ask me.

[PhoenixBimmer]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

This small overlap is a common impact in real world.

I agree.

There were following up news articles on this matter.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...ty-pick-award/

"The institute says the 2016 BMW 3 Series features suspension revisions to better control wheel movement and cabin intrusion during small overlap front crashes. BMW says it revised the front suspension’s geometry, while the front struts now feature upper anchor points with five bolts, up from three bolts in the previous version."

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/12/03/20...al-iihs-score/

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/bm...ng-102577.html

[cays]

All this seems to make it unlikely that the reinforcing plate (Part # 27) will make it in to the LCI M4 as a running change. Unfortunate...

[1MOREMOD]

You can also drive an old beater that shoves the engine in your lap. Incentive to not hit stuff. Let's bubble wrap our lives so someone can have a job doing it.

[cays]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

You can also drive an old beater that shoves the engine in your lap. Incentive to not hit stuff. Let's bubble wrap our lives so someone can have a job doing it.

And you can drive a car that shoves the engine up your presumptuous ass. Bubble wrapped my life is not but what the fuck would you know about that?

[1MOREMOD]

Nothing but im sick of being protected on all sides by someone else. I used to wander around as a kid all day doing whatever I want and my parents drove cars that were unsafe and dangerous and smoked and drank and guess what all still here. I can take care of myself without a bunch of stage 5 clingers helping me out.

[cays]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Nothing but im sick of being protected on all sides by someone else. I used to wander around as a kid all day doing whatever I want and my parents drove cars that were unsafe and dangerous and smoked and drank and guess what all still here. I can take care of myself without a bunch of stage 5 clingers helping me out.

You and I share a lot more in common than on how we might appear to differ. To me, a reasonable expectation of well-engineered crash protection is a totally separate issue from civil liberties, personal freedoms, the all-controlling Big Brother proclivities of government et al. I think you would relate well to where I'm coming from (in general).

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by cays

You and I share a lot more in common than on how we might appear to differ. To me, a reasonable expectation of well-engineered crash protection is a totally separate issue from civil liberties, personal freedoms, the all-controlling Big Brother proclivities of government et al. I think you would relate well to where I'm coming from (in general).

Agreed. Society as a whole is full of whining pussies.

[cays]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I guess your comment is tongue in cheek.

I have spent a large part of my working career in design/R&D in the fall arrest industry, with a lot of similarities to vehicle impact tests. The ability to slow the deceleration and dissipate energy away from the human body and its restraint systems, makes a massive difference to safety.

The Volvo example may appear a bit strange, but I'd rather be in its safety cell, with its 'soft' stop, than in a car which puts the wheel into the foot well, due to a more aggressive impact and a mass that stops in milliseconds.

HighlandPete

From NHTSA:

CONCLUSIONS

Over the past fourteen years of NCAP frontal testing, 175 LTVs were crashed. The total force-versus-crush of LTVs in high speed barrier impacts is non-linear. Examination of the force-versus-crush curves suggests three parameters to assess stiffness. These three structural parameters are (1) maximum vehicle dynamic crush, (2) peak deceleration as measured in the occupant compartment, and (3) the time duration of the crash pulse, from instant of impact until the vehicle reaches maximum rebound velocity.

Over the past fourteen years of NCAP testing, on the average, the total crush of the LTVs has increased, the peak deceleration in the occupant compartment has decreased, and the time duration of the crash pulse has increased. The trend of each of these three parameters is consistent with a reduction in the total stiffness of frontal structures of LTVs.

For LTVs with air bags, on the average, the vehicles with greater total crush, lower peak occupant compartment acceleration, and longer time duration of the crash pulse have a higher safety rating. This is consistent with higher NCAP rated LTVs having a softer structure.

An approximate linear structural stiffness can be computed for the first 200 mm of vehicle crush. This initial frontal stiffness is considered an approximate measure of the structural aggressivity of the striking vehicle in front to side impacts. Over the past fourteen years of NCAP testing, on the average, the initial stiffness of the LTVs has decreased. This is consistent with LTVs incorporating softer structures at the very front.

As stated earlier, this study examined 175 LTVs to answer two questions (1) have LTVs become stiffer over the fourteen years that NCAP has been testing these vehicles and (2) do stiffer LTVs do better in NCAP? From these data and the assumptions of these analyses, it is concluded that, on average, LTVs have become less stiff and, therefore, potentially less aggressive in vehicle-to-vehicle crashes, and the less stiff LTVs have higher NCAP rating.

[PhoenixBimmer]

Originally Posted by cays

From NHTSA...rating.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskto...op-safety-pick

only one vehicle from BMW in 2016 safest cars.(IIHS)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HtMh3e2-FQ

[cays]

Only one Merc also (E Class). SIX Subarus!

[RM7]

Originally Posted by cays

Only one Merc also (E Class). SIX Subarus!

I wonder how much the engine has to do with this? The boxer sits in front of the front axle, and is bolted to the chassis of course, so it may help create a "glancing blow" situation, not to mention the extended overhang that the setup also gives.

[drewnel22]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Nothing but im sick of being protected on all sides by someone else. I used to wander around as a kid all day doing whatever I want and my parents drove cars that were unsafe and dangerous and smoked and drank and guess what all still here. I can take care of myself without a bunch of stage 5 clingers helping me out.

What happens when someone else in oncoming traffic is texting and veers into your lane? I would be glad to have the car I'm driving do well in a situation like they are testing here. May save a lot of injuries and lives. Nothing wrong with that.

Distracted and drunk driving is still a huge issue though.

[1MOREMOD]

I would avoid them because I'm paying attention. I'm former motorcycle rider for years and now a track junkie and take it as my responsibility to prevent accidents. Accidents take 2 people screwing up.

[godmans]

I read actively but rarely post. I am a believer of statistics and combining what IIHS does with real life example is the best. For public education purpose only, pls see below as a perfect example of small overlap crash:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToNcGCz21wA

RIP to the deceased

[PhoenixBimmer]

Originally Posted by godmans

I...

What a scary accident! I also firmly believe in statistics and researches regarding automotive safety.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by drewnel22

What happens when someone else in oncoming traffic is texting and veers into your lane? I would be glad to have the car I'm driving do well in a situation like they are testing here. May save a lot of injuries and lives. Nothing wrong with that.

Distracted and drunk driving is still a huge issue though.

Late in responding. But this is exactly what happened to me years ago. I was driving in my 2006 Focus ZX3. I was ironically taking the car to the dealership to get some work done. The day or two days prior it had snowed. The roads were clear but there was significant snow banks on the side of the roads.

I was approaching an intersection which had a red light for both my direction of travel and the opposite side traffic. I was about 50 to 100 feet away and started to slow. Light turns green and the first car on the opposite side starts to move. About 2 seconds after the car moves, it has crossed the intersection but now is veering towards me crossing the double yellow. I start to slow and was wondering if this moron is going to realize they're not in their lane. The car keeps coming. I blow my horn and swerve to the right to try to avoid. I couldn't go too far over to the right as the snow bank was blocking my exit path. Just before the bang, the idiot driver looks up. You guessed it...staring at the damn cell phone. She was that close where I could see clearly what she was doing. She looks up startled and tries to swerve away. Too late. Bang. She hits the left front corner of my car. The impact throws the bumper cover of her car about 20 feet down the road. My car was crunched enough where I couldn't open the driver's side door. I had to climb out the passenger side. I was so pissed, I didn't even talk to her. I knew physically I had to put distance between her and me because I was going to physically hurt her...woman or not.

The end result of the crash. My front head light, left fender, bumper, strut, lower control arm, and wheel were all damaged. Strangely, I think the hood was unscathed and none of the air bags went off. I guestimate she and I were traveling about 30 MPH before hitting. But I was swerving and trying to decelerate at the same time. I walked away with no injuries. And the funny thing is my car was able to be fixed. The woman driver was cited by the police.

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

I would avoid them because I'm paying attention. I'm former motorcycle rider for years and now a track junkie and take it as my responsibility to prevent accidents. Accidents take 2 people screwing up.

Things happen. Per the above, there was nothing I could have done to avoid it. Also, I'm a motorcycle rider too who not only rides on the street but also on the track. Yet this happened to me. So don't think this can't happen to you.

[1MOREMOD]

Yes things can happen cars should be safe more a commentary on the coddling of America on general. People need jobs so give them one making up more rules that we don't need.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Yes things can happen cars should be safe more a commentary on the coddling of America on general. People need jobs so give them one making up more rules that we don't need.

I originally replied with a response in retrospect of what you said was a bit harsh. So I've edited my response after re-reading your quoted reply above. While I do agree with you in general terms about government just making crap up to perpetuate the bureaucracy, there are some things which the government does a have a good function for. While it's nice to think those running corporations will totally take the social responsibility of a business taught in Business 101 classes, that's not the reality here. I can say I've also been involved in a severe side impact crash where my parents took the brunt of the impact on the driver's side. When I think back at how cars are made today to how the little Pontiac J2000 station wagon we were in, I wonder how my parents more my dad would have faired had the car had all the modern side impact protection.

[caranddriver]

I concur that is pretty shameful on BMW's part to not have made a running change and then, more so, at the time of the LCI to improve the test results. There is the expectation that your premium-luxury vehicle also has good crash test results all around. It seems that some of the mainstream makers put more effort into improving their results when needed. Makes sense since it makes for good marketing!

If you want to see horrible, the 2016 A4 got a poor small side impact score and yet the A3 gets good. Similar to the 2 and 3 Series results, except at least the 3 avoided poor.

I have a 4 Series coupe and I haven't seen an small impact crash test on any of those yet.

[Thumbs]

Resurrecting a dead thread because it was one of the first results on my Google search and with the vehicles now coming up on the used car market I think it is worth revisiting.

First a bit of background on me to give perspective. Back in February I fell from with a ladder and broke my left lower leg in three places. Plate, screws, and a tibial nail, months of rehab, continued poor sleep, significantly reduced quality of life (I was a very athletic person), and despite having great health insurance we had several thousands of dollars in medical bills. That was a relatively "minor" injury to my left lower leg, just as could happen in a vehicle with "Marginal" performance in a small-offset crash. A vehicle with "Good" performance would leave you uninjured.

Yes, the odds of an accident are low, and the odds of that accident being a small-offset type are even lower. The odds of me falling from a ladder were low, my leg through the ladder even lower. It does happen. I don't want any of my loved ones to experience what I experienced. And please refrain from the derisive "Don't get an accident!" comments, they obviously will be of no consolation after the fact.

A previous post referred to BMW's claim to have altered the suspension, etc. to improve performance of the vehicle in small offset crashes. They may have done so, and it may have improved performance slightly, but the test rating did not change the following year.

I can understand, to some degree, not completely testing very expensive vehicles like the Range Rover, though I personally am not inclined to buy one because it hasn't been tested. A vehicle like the X5 which has been a major vehicle for BMW should be thoroughly tested with each generation change and with any significant model year alterations. The lack of test data gives me NO reason to believe it will protect me as well as the competing products from Volvo and Mercedes, both of which are fully tested every year.

In summary: Shame on you, BMW. I sincerely hope you get it done, and done well, for the G-series X-5. I am holding out for one but the GLE will be all-new next year as well. And I know the safety history of that vehicle....

"Safest" SUV's
2014+ Acura MDX
2015+ Audi Q5, average reliability
2017+? Audi Q7
2014+ M-Class/GLE, good reliability
2013+ Volvo XC60, average reliability
2003(!!!)+ Volvo XC90, poor reliability but congratulations to Volvo for great safety scores for almost 15 years.

End of lecture. Thanks for reading.

[Thumbs]

All of that said, here are the relevant links for the X5 and GLE. Of interest is the apparent (I am not trained at this stuff) better performance numbers for the X5.

(Click on "Technical Measurements" tab)
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/veh.../x5-4-door-suv
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/veh...ass-4-door-suv
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/veh...c90-4-door-suv