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      04-18-2011, 11:00 PM   #67
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I'm wondering why everyone is so against a 2.0 4 cylinder turbo? I personally prefer turbos over NA but after having an EVO how could I say anything bad about that motor? If BMW comes anywhere near that motor with good fuel economy then how would it not be a win/win? Flame away...
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      04-18-2011, 11:24 PM   #68
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From AutoWeek review

“More power, greater torque, reduced fuel consumption, lower tailpipe emissions and less weight–but better? In everyday driving, the N20 is noticeably more responsive although its sound is nowhere near as alluring as that of the engine it replaces (N52), . BMW says that will be fixed on certain models, including on an updated Z4 sDrive28i, with the addition of an electronic sound generator.”

Another electronic enhancement - can't wait to hear that one.

I prefer my N54. It doesn't feel like a pair of Turbo Chargers. It feels like a pair or TESTIES!! BIG MEATY ONES!!
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      04-19-2011, 12:59 AM   #69
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Why???
Elctronic sound generator...


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      04-19-2011, 05:04 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerrK View Post
From AutoWeek review

“More power, greater torque, reduced fuel consumption, lower tailpipe emissions and less weight–but better? In everyday driving, the N20 is noticeably more responsive although its sound is nowhere near as alluring as that of the engine it replaces (N52), . BMW says that will be fixed on certain models, including on an updated Z4 sDrive28i, with the addition of an electronic sound generator.”

Another electronic enhancement - can't wait to hear that one.

I prefer my N54. It doesn't feel like a pair of Turbo Chargers. It feels like a pair or TESTIES!! BIG MEATY ONES!!
Really? It's come down to this, a sound generator? How f'ing laughable is that? If BMW needs to engineer a sound generator to make a 4-cylinder engine sound like something it isn't, it is a sad day in Bimmerland.

Here's an idea; how about figuring out how to build a LIGHTER chassis with a smaller, more fuel effecient I6, and gain some MPG's, instead of sending the audio engineers in to mask the sound of a unnatually balanced 4-cylinder.

If I have a choice between everyone else's turbo four and BMWs over-priced, electronic sound enhanced turbo for, I'll be saving some money when I purchase my next car.
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      04-19-2011, 06:38 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
Really? It's come down to this, a sound generator? How f'ing laughable is that? If BMW needs to engineer a sound generator to make a 4-cylinder engine sound like something it isn't, it is a sad day in Bimmerland.

Here's an idea; how about figuring out how to build a LIGHTER chassis with a smaller, more fuel effecient I6, and gain some MPG's, instead of sending the audio engineers in to mask the sound of a unnatually balanced 4-cylinder.

If I have a choice between everyone else's turbo four and BMWs over-priced, electronic sound enhanced turbo for, I'll be saving some money when I purchase my next car.
a sound generator is not something new. The previous Z4 (6 Cyl.) had one (called "resonanzrohr" in German) as well... let's first see what this sound generator exactly is before dismissing it.
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      04-19-2011, 07:33 AM   #72
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      04-19-2011, 07:59 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
a sound generator is not something new. The previous Z4 (6 Cyl.) had one (called "resonanzrohr" in German) as well... let's first see what this sound generator exactly is before dismissing it.
Yep, just poorly chosen terminology especially when it's used together with the word "electronic". Basically it means that the air intake is somehow modified to make it sound better/louder. Would be interesting to know what the "electronic" part means. Maybe they'll put in a volume knob for it
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      04-19-2011, 08:10 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
Really? It's come down to this, a sound generator? How f'ing laughable is that? If BMW needs to engineer a sound generator to make a 4-cylinder engine sound like something it isn't, it is a sad day in Bimmerland.

Here's an idea; how about figuring out how to build a LIGHTER chassis with a smaller, more fuel effecient I6, and gain some MPG's, instead of sending the audio engineers in to mask the sound of a unnatually balanced 4-cylinder.

If I have a choice between everyone else's turbo four and BMWs over-priced, electronic sound enhanced turbo for, I'll be saving some money when I purchase my next car.
+1 but at this stage BMW can't economically build a new chassis. Hopefully in future Z4s it will be lighter, but I imagine BMW will still insist upon a 4cyl turbo as the base model.

It does seem BMW is losing its identity of having smooth I-6s, some claim this is not part of the identity, I disagree.
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      04-19-2011, 08:14 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
a sound generator is not something new. The previous Z4 (6 Cyl.) had one (called "resonanzrohr" in German) as well... let's first see what this sound generator exactly is before dismissing it.
Yes, BMW previously used a "sound generator" in the Z4. However it was a purely mechanical device which amplified the engine bay noise and ducted it into the cabin. At least that was a real sound. Now they are going to electronically generate some frequency to simulate the sound of an I6 or whatever. Maybe they'll subliminally tell you to be easy on the throttle as well, as part of "Efficient Dynamics" and YOU WILL LIKE IT - Ja.
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      04-19-2011, 08:14 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
a sound generator is not something new. The previous Z4 (6 Cyl.) had one (called "resonanzrohr" in German) as well... let's first see what this sound generator exactly is before dismissing it.
Yeah, but that was just a tube coming thru the firewall so you could hear the 6-cylinder engine better in the cockpit. This appears to be more like some device to make a fake engine noise.
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      04-19-2011, 08:17 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrat View Post
+1 but at this stage BMW can't economically build a new chassis. Hopefully in future Z4s it will be lighter, but I imagine BMW will still insist upon a 4cyl turbo as the base model.

It does seem BMW is losing its identity of having smooth I-6s, some claim this is not part of the identity, I disagree.
This thread started in the E90 section. I was writing more about the upcoming F30, which will have the same motor in the 2012 325i. But your point is well taken.
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      04-19-2011, 08:44 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
I was writing more about the upcoming F30, which will have the same motor in the MY2013 F30 328i.
Slight correction.
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      04-19-2011, 08:56 AM   #79
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Sure seems like a long-ass hood for a lil 4-cyl to be under it. I bet they could almost fit two under there...
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      04-19-2011, 09:04 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP View Post
Sure seems like a long-ass hood for a lil 4-cyl to be under it. I bet they could almost fit two under there...
BMW, with space for storing the bodies in hood.

Because its too slow to be a getaway vehicle...
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      04-19-2011, 09:54 AM   #81
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      04-19-2011, 11:24 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
This is the second post romancing the beloved 4-cylinder of the E30. Being a person who actually was of age during the rise of the E30 (and owned a '89 325i for 18 years), your admiration is highly unfounded. When the E21 came to America, it was only offered as a four cylinder and the car was slow and unreliable once the catalytic version debuted in 1980. It was so bad that BMW finally offered the E30 with an I6 all of 121 HP. The famous ETA M20. Not until BMW refitted the ETA with a decent cylinder head an created the 168HP M20 motor in the 325i was an E30 any good. BMW's only other 4-cylinder was the E30 M3, which had problems of its own. In '91 came the modern-engined E30 318 as a last gasp before the E36 debuted. I have a version of this motor in my Wife's Z3 1.9 L, and it in no way is anywhere as nice an engine as any BMW I6.

It will be soon that the only naturally aspriated I6 BMW vehicle sold as new will be the soon-to-be released BMW K1600 MOTORCYCLE! Pitty.
Well, I guess I didn't realize that the 4-cylinder engines in the E30's were that anemic. I've never driven one myself, only heard or read about them. The point I was really trying to make is that there is less of a power difference between a modern turbo I4 vs. an NA I6, compared to NA I4 vs. NA I6 of yore. Yes, there will be differences in sound and how the power is delivered, but that is to be expected. I do like the idea someone mentioned of working further to reduce weight, and possibly using smaller inline sixes.
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      04-19-2011, 01:39 PM   #83
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Spec is good. But every review says engine is too quite.
It can be good thing on 5 series but not in Z4.
Even though spec looks good, not sure 4 cylinder on z4..
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      04-19-2011, 01:52 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDS2015 View Post
This engine makes a lot of sense for the lower price range where these cars will be situated. I mean, people that get the N52 engine over the N54/55 are the people who are not pushing their cars as much (IMO and I know there will be exceptions). These people drive their cars daily and probably never go above 3K rpm.
3,000 RPM is crossed going between stop-signs on a city block. I do know what you're saying. Majority of Bimmer drivers are not pushing their cars ... but I don't think that applies to the majority of owners posting on bmw forums.

It's a little presumptuous to say that the N52, which can propel the e9X from 0-60 in 6.1 seconds, is somehow for drivers who aren't enthusiasts, while no one would ever make that judgment about the M54 in the E46, which also clocks in with an official 0-60 time of 6.1. That's fast enough for fun and spirited driving and the fact there is a faster option today is irrelevant.

I'd take 230 HP from an NA 6 over 240 or 245 FI 4 ... heat-sink during humid summers in tri-state area (especially w/ AC) is like to be extremely noticeable. The torque numbers are interesting, however...wonder if it'll compensate.
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      04-19-2011, 03:52 PM   #85
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A tape player with a speaker telling me that "Ohhh yea, you are pushing me so hard" when I step on the gas. Haha. What is next a speedometer telling me I am doing 120 when I am driving 30?
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      04-19-2011, 04:21 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerrK View Post
From AutoWeek review

“More power, greater torque, reduced fuel consumption, lower tailpipe emissions and less weight–but better? In everyday driving, the N20 is noticeably more responsive although its sound is nowhere near as alluring as that of the engine it replaces (N52), . BMW says that will be fixed on certain models, including on an updated Z4 sDrive28i, with the addition of an electronic sound generator.”

Another electronic enhancement - can't wait to hear that one.

I prefer my N54. It doesn't feel like a pair of Turbo Chargers. It feels like a pair or TESTIES!! BIG MEATY ONES!!
ha ha! wow... soon the whole car will be an illusion... I was amazed on a recent trip to San Francisco and the numerous Teslas I saw drive by with a deep growl LOL (not kidding) ~Frost
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      04-19-2011, 05:04 PM   #87
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People out there really like the 3.0L NA engine? I find it to be a joke every time I get a loaner. ...and the roar of the 3.0L NA? Really??

Everyone keeps beating on turbo failure and HPFP failures of the early 335s. People are crazy if they expected to buy a 2007 or 2008 335 and not have problems. Shoot if you played it right, you had your 2007 or 2008 335 replaced with a 2010 or 2011. BMW had to test the applicability of turbo engines on one of its platforms. Why not the higher end 3 and 5 (as turbos generally make a car more fun to drive)? Made sense to me. Refine that technology and then put it into use in the more mainstream cars.
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      04-19-2011, 05:23 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chemgeek View Post
People out there really like the 3.0L NA engine? I find it to be a joke every time I get a loaner. ...and the roar of the 3.0L NA? Really??

Everyone keeps beating on turbo failure and HPFP failures of the early 335s. People are crazy if they expected to buy a 2007 or 2008 335 and not have problems. Shoot if you played it right, you had your 2007 or 2008 335 replaced with a 2010 or 2011. BMW had to test the applicability of turbo engines on one of its platforms. Why not the higher end 3 and 5 (as turbos generally make a car more fun to drive)? Made sense to me. Refine that technology and then put it into use in the more mainstream cars.
You write like a turbo engine is something new; something that is trickled down from a manufacturer's high-end models to regular cars joe-sixpack will buy. Not sure how old you are but there were tons of turbo cars in the '80s; it was almost fashion at some point. The fuel metering and ignition control technology may be new allowing for safer higher boost pressures, but the turbo is acient technology. I think it is a safe bet considering BMW's record with the N54, that the N20 will be plauged with problems just as much. Hopefully I'm wrong. If a manufacturer is going to add a turbo engine to its "mainstream" cars then it better be highly reliable for a daily driver. With the 335i, I just don't see it; even in the later model years.
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