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      02-05-2013, 01:52 PM   #45
nicknaz
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Liar maybe, but for some reason him admitting that it was a REPO makes me believe that it was also a return, and not a forced REPO, and that was my major concern..
He admitted it because you saw the issue and called him out.

Repo tow vs. repo return should be the least of your worries. Price feels too good to be true.. you should be worried about WHY that is and what else this guy is lying about to try and sucker you in.. excuse me.. get you to close the deal.

You will now have to be extra diligent on because you know you are dealing with a liar. Carfax isn't infallible. If things happened in the last two months it wouldn't have shown up on carfax yet. Or if issues were fixed without going through insurance it wouldn't have shown up either.

I would hate for you to be posting on here about issues some time in the future. it takes so much time and enjoyment out of the car to do warranty stuff...
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      02-05-2013, 02:02 PM   #46
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Agreed with the warranty issue.

Would the concern be something that an experienced indy mechanic can lift? Never bought pre-owned before and not from the area, so have been looking through other forums to find reputable BMW indys to do the inspection. I would imagine anyone experience can easily spot replaced or repainted parts (like fenders, doors, bumpers) and the biggest concern, which is maybe frame damage?
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      02-05-2013, 08:49 PM   #47
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I'm sorry, like another poster said, it's not worth the risk. I don't care that it has a warranty...if it was fixable, why didn't it get fixed BEFORE the dealer put it on sale? There are already a few warning signs and you seem too 'desperate' to get this particular car, when I'm sure there are others out there. Don't be 'pressured' into getting something, esp sight-unseen. Ppl make mistakes when they feel rushed or are too blinded by 'love' for a car. I don't want to see you come back reporting various latent prbs, that would be bad.

GL, dude.
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      02-06-2013, 03:37 PM   #48
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http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770547

You should just take over this forum member's lease
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      02-15-2013, 10:17 PM   #49
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So, I decided to give up on the white/red car. Too many red flags, and like many members have warned me about, why take the risk? In addition, I found out that the owner of the dealer is actually using the car as his DD... I bet he babies the car...

Anyway, I found another car that I am interested in, but trying to stay cautious. Opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.

So this car is being sold by a BMW dealer (closer than the coral red one, but not exactly local so I can't go to check it out). It is a 2012 with 18 miles... and the Carfax doesn't tell much.



I pulled up the VIN and the car was manufactured 3/12... so what was it doing in the past year? I asked the dealer and was told this was a car a military personnel ordered. Due to circumstance changes, he couldn't keep the car, so the dealer auctioned off the car and the current dealer offering the car bought it. A few questions come up...

1) I don't know the rules and regulations, I assume a dealer has to purchase the car themselves in order to auction it off? (hence, Carfax says Vehicle purchased on 1/17/2013 and then auctioned on 1/21/2013)
2) If the above is true, how come the vehicle was titled after the auction on 1/25/2013? I looked up the Title# and it seems to check out... but peculiar to me that it was titled and owner reported after it was auctioned (and the current dealership is not in Florida, so it isn't the dealer who bought the car at auction)
4) How long does a dealer generally hold a special ordered car where a deposit was left? The military personnel story is sketchy because why would the dealer buy the car and then sell it at auction (in which case they definitely lost money). Why didn't they just sell it as a previous year left-over NEW car themselves? They would definitely make more money than auction.
5) And lastly, maybe I am being overly anal and nitpicking, but I am afraid of possible mileage rollback? The car has 16 miles, which means it was essentially un-driven. Is it just me or do the seats look rather worn for a "new" car? (specifically the driver leg bolsters)





At least obnoxious yellow warning tags are still there?

I feel like I'm being a bit paranoid, but trying to not make a $60,000 mistake, and would like other's opinion on the legitimacy of this car. It's price right at Edmund's TMV (54k), so doesn't look like a "too-good-to-be-true deal." However, the creasing of the seats really doesn't look "16 miles" new to me, even if people sat on in it to "see how the seats felt." I've looked at other older and higher mileage Z4s (10-20k) that the dealer is selling, and the leather (same, Dakota Black) seem to have less bolster wear than this one. The passenger seat doesn't appear to have any wear.

Last edited by CedarZ4; 02-15-2013 at 10:25 PM.
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      02-15-2013, 11:17 PM   #50
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Is the BMW dealer selling it as a Certified Pre Owned (CPO) vehicle?

The material puckering in the seat is not that bad. If it bothers you - tell them to recover it and it's sold. It's not a big deal to do - many people on the forum have had the seat covers replaced for various reasons - most at BMW's expense.
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      02-15-2013, 11:21 PM   #51
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That drivers seat indeed looks too worn. I do not see any reason why the drivers and passengers seat would not look the same on a 16 miles car. How long does it take to drive 16 miles? 30mins? Try sitting in the passengers seat for 30 mins and see if it looks even remotely the same...

So for me two questions pop up:

1) In your country, would you expect the price of a car with 16miles to be significantly more expensive than one with say 1000 miles? I mean, would it be fair to assume that the price would have dropped significantly if the car wasn't perceived as un-driven? Would the dealer have a very strong incentive, even if it risks his reputation and that of BMWs, to roll back the odometer, even it it only had 1000 miles on it?

2) Would it be possible for you to bring you own mechanic and a camera to have the car checked for any signs of it not being un-driven? He may be able to check the brake-pads or different filters to find proof that the car was only driven 16 miles. For instance I assume the air filter must look brand new, and it could be something they forgot to "clean" after the rollback.
BTW even its hard to compare cars driven in different locations, I could offer to take a picture of my airfilter which now has 1000 miles on it if you like. I also have a picture of how it looked brand new, and how one with 24.000 miles look.
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      02-15-2013, 11:50 PM   #52
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Herrk - It is not a CPO. And I am not so much concerned about the creases on the seat itself, more so the fact that such a brand new car (18 miles) has those creases. Leads me to believe that it was driven for more than 18 miles, hence the rollback concern.

Asbjorn - Good point. It seems that 1,000 miles, or even 10,000 miles doesn't seem to have THAT much of a difference in terms of sale price (maybe 1-3 thousand, max). It is the year of the vehicle that effects the price point the most. However, the difference like you said, is that a 18 mile car is perceived as new which might increase resale, as opposed to a 5,000miles or 10,000 mile car in which both are driven, so the price difference due to the miles wouldn't be that much.

I would take it to a mechanic for sure (if dealer says no, big red flag and I walk) but I want to have a better idea to see if it's even worth flying out to get it inspected in the first place. I think my first clue would be to look at the tires to see if they are brand new... those run over $1,000 for all 4 and like you said, the saving of rollback probably isn't worth the cost.

Anyone have any idea as to why the first deal would auction it and not just sell it as a new car? Could this be a potential flag that there may be something wrong with it since it wouldn't sell as a new car perhaps?
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      02-15-2013, 11:51 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjørn View Post
That drivers seat indeed looks too worn. I do not see any reason why the drivers and passengers seat would not look the same on a 16 miles car. How long does it take to drive 16 miles? 30mins? Try sitting in the passengers seat for 30 mins and see if it looks even remotely the same...
Exactly... and that's my main concern. The actual wear itself doesn't bother me. It's a wear-and-tear item, it is bound to look like that eventually anyway.
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      02-16-2013, 01:02 AM   #54
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Don't rely on the carfax too much. The data is only as good as the guy who keyes it in. (I've seen CARFAXs with gross errors like maintenance done before car was built etc...) The car appears to be brand new and might have sit in the show room for a year. I know my F07 was a showroom car and got no miles for 9 months. If you check the VIN you may see a weird S903A Fotofahrzeug option which indicates a showroom preparation. This could also explain the wear on the driver seat. All the customers trying the car without getting to test drive it. Although to be honest I don't think my seat has these creases so it might be some heat/UV damage or manufacturing defects which you should ask to get repaired.
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      02-16-2013, 03:06 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CedarZ4 View Post
Anyone have any idea as to why the first deal would auction it and not just sell it as a new car? Could this be a potential flag that there may be something wrong with it since it wouldn't sell as a new car perhaps?
Maybe he just wasn't able to sell it in a reasonable amount of time and wanted it off the lot?

Is the current dealer selling it as new or used?
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      02-16-2013, 06:05 PM   #56
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Pre-owned. They have to, it was titled.

The current dealer seems legit, but it's the previous owner/dealer or whoever that I'm afraid would do a rollback.
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      02-18-2013, 07:10 AM   #57
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One thought.. you can order a brand new 28i for the money you are willing to pay.[/quote]

I would do just that, got a brand new 28i for the money, facelifted, with options and colour combo the way i like...
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      02-19-2013, 06:14 PM   #58
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I personally think a "franchise dealer" was WAY more on the line and is less likely to try to pull a fast one on you than a random used car dealer.

This seems a more legit than your last find
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      03-01-2013, 03:55 PM   #59
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One thought.. you can order a brand new 28i for the money you are willing to pay.
Why would anyone that wants a Z4 35i settle for a 28i?
Not as good looking, not a convertible, not nearly as fast, not as fun.
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      03-01-2013, 05:40 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rori zahr View Post
One thought.. you can order a brand new 28i for the money you are willing to pay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluuZ4AZ
Why would anyone that wants a Z4 35i settle for a 28i?
Not as good looking, not a convertible, not nearly as fast, not as fun.
Not a convertible?
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      03-01-2013, 05:52 PM   #61
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Maybe Bluu got it mixed up with the 1 series?

Regardless, I ended up getting an atcama yellow 35i Super impressed. But... 3 days into owning it...

http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=810627
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      03-01-2013, 08:01 PM   #62
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sorry to hear of this after all your worry on what was the right thing to do.

Maybe you need an X3 instead, at least for the GF (:
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      03-01-2013, 09:11 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by 135iUSN View Post
sorry to hear of this after all your worry on what was the right thing to do.

Maybe you need an X3 instead, at least for the GF (:


.......

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      03-02-2013, 08:09 AM   #64
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Could be that the white car was a flood car. They all have to go somewhere?
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      03-02-2013, 08:33 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluuZ4AZ View Post
Why would anyone that wants a Z4 35i settle for a 28i?
Not as good looking, not a convertible, not nearly as fast, not as fun.
I meant Z4 28i
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      03-03-2013, 04:15 PM   #66
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For those who followed the thread and gave me advice, thanks a lot. Thought it would be appropriate to say, I am proud to finally be posting as an owner, and not just a prospective!

Yes, I am a loser and this is what I do on my Sundays

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