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      11-10-2012, 03:46 AM   #1
Gunzaro
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Question C63 Coupe vs Z4 35is

Thinking about upgrading next year to a C63 coupe with P31 Performance Package. Anyone had the pleasure of driving both...comments?

How does the 'M' of Z4s performance compare with the new 2012 C63 coupe? What about ride quality?

Going to have to drive one myself but not totally convinced on Benz yet.
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      11-10-2012, 04:05 AM   #2
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You need to do much more research, they're completely different cars.

The C63 is track focused, incredibly powerful/torquey and with an earth shattering sound. But IMHO its not an everyday car, it's just too uncomfortable (hard ride).

The Z4 (e89) does not have an M version (M sport pack is a token mainly superficial thing) and is not track focused its an everyday car you can also have fun with.
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      11-10-2012, 07:50 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManiacGT View Post
You need to do much more research, they're completely different cars.

The C63 is track focused, incredibly powerful/torquey and with an earth shattering sound. But IMHO its not an everyday car, it's just too uncomfortable (hard ride).

The Z4 (e89) does not have an M version (M sport pack is a token mainly superficial thing) and is not track focused its an everyday car you can also have fun with.
correct, c63 is compared with m3, z35is is less agressive but you get 2 in one (vert)
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      11-10-2012, 11:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunzaro View Post
Thinking about upgrading next year to a C63 coupe with P31 Performance Package. Anyone had the pleasure of driving both...comments?

How does the 'M' of Z4s performance compare with the new 2012 C63 coupe? What about ride quality?

Going to have to drive one myself but not totally convinced on Benz yet.
I did drive the C63 and found it cannot be compared to the ///M3 ... Only you can make the final analysis by driving both ... Then I am certain you will make the right choice.

Good luck

PS

I know you are not looking at an M3, I mentioned the M3 since it is an all around car and super on the track if that is what you are looking for.
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Last edited by Mr. ///M3 RD; 11-10-2012 at 11:32 AM. Reason: Added ps
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      11-10-2012, 10:33 PM   #5
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if you plan to drive hard (i.e. driving schools) I recommend against the Z4. Cooling is insufficient. Even with 52F ambient air temps, 280F indicated oil temps were very easy to achieve. For a hotter climate I think the Z would go into limp mode too easily. It is a lot of fun but it isn't a track star by any means.

I tracked a C63 sedan with AMG development package at Autobahn Country Club in a lead-follow situation and thought it was very entertaining. Totally apples and orangles compared to a Z4. I thought the exhaust noise was great and the car was fun. It seemed too easy to provoke oversteer, which was fun but a bit stressful.

I'm most interested in switching to a Z06 or a Cayman S after the Z4. I haven't had a chance to track a Z06 but I really really enjoyed Cayman S PDK. Rotates super fast, PDK is much more aggressive than BMW DCT and it seems like the brakes and other systems are robust enough to handle prolonged track usage from the factory with no issues (unlike BMW)
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      11-11-2012, 03:56 AM   #6
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Thanks for the replies. I already drive a Z4 35is with ESS tune and find it a great vehicle....quite fast. I have not yet test driven a C63 as the local dealer does not have one in stock. I think the C63+PP will be noticeably faster than my tuned Z4.
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      11-11-2012, 07:40 AM   #7
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Get any AMG if sound and tire smoking is most important to you.
Get a Z4 if you want an open 2-seater which both looks and feels great to drive no matter where.
Get an SLS AMG roadster if you want both and only have few days left to live...

And yes yes, get an M3 if you want a luxury track / racecar and think the 911s/Boxters aren't good looking. I personally do not regard any regular AMGs/Audi RS/Z4 as much as racecars as an M3. Probably the AMG black-series is? But again, I have been involved in racing most of my life, and its not all that important. Imo, if you like competing on a race track, go-karting is all you need.

Over steer is fun. High cornering speed, control and stability isn't really. Its disappointing if you used to have it, and then lost it, but so is a higher top speed - and both top speed and cornering speed is not really useful for much else than bragging. OK, alot of people will disagree, and we can't all be the same, but I still think over steer is more fun. I like a tossable car, even if it is slower around a track.

Now, some people might tell you the Z4 understeers, and the C63 AMG is better for drifting. In my experience, as a Z4 owner, IF I loose traction in a corner, 9 out of 10 times it is because I am provoking the rear wheels to play. In fact, I can get the tail out in almost any corner I want. I am sure an AMG could do it with more violence, but then personally I never had this addiction to tire smoking that some have. And in those 1 out of 10 times where I do get understeer, I am simply going faster than expected, or not aware of how slippery the surface is. This car hides its speed well, and I actually need this safety feature so that I can slowdown without spinning!

So it comes down to roadster vs coupe. Looks/attraction vs great sound. Sports/comfort/economy balance vs sheer hooliganism. You are looking at two very different options, and if you cannot make up your mind, well, there is always that SLS roadster haha...
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Little known facts about BMW: 1) The N54 is still in production and used in the current Z4 35i and 35is. 2) In a Z4 you can get sport+ steering combined with normal suspension etc by selecting DSC=off. (Update: DSC=off also offers sports steering in the M135i) 3) All Z4s with 19" wheels are still only offered with the worst performing OEM tires ever sold with a DCT equipped BMW (Potenza RE 050 RFT).
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      11-11-2012, 07:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunzaro View Post
Thanks for the replies. I already drive a Z4 35is with ESS tune and find it a great vehicle....quite fast. I have not yet test driven a C63 as the local dealer does not have one in stock. I think the C63+PP will be noticeably faster than my tuned Z4.
Oh I see. It is not hard to find faster cars. If you just want that you should go for something with a ton of grip and lots of power. Something like a Nissan GTR or 911 turbo. They will rip your head off! If I had bought a C63 AMG just for acceleration and speed, I would regret how heavy it is.
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Little known facts about BMW: 1) The N54 is still in production and used in the current Z4 35i and 35is. 2) In a Z4 you can get sport+ steering combined with normal suspension etc by selecting DSC=off. (Update: DSC=off also offers sports steering in the M135i) 3) All Z4s with 19" wheels are still only offered with the worst performing OEM tires ever sold with a DCT equipped BMW (Potenza RE 050 RFT).

Last edited by Asbjorn; 11-11-2012 at 07:54 AM.
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      11-11-2012, 07:37 PM   #9
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      11-12-2012, 04:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjørn View Post
I personally do not regard any regular AMGs/Audi RS/Z4 as much as racecars as an M3.
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...ion/specs.html

Lap Times
Grattan Raceway | 2.2 miles
Audi RS5 1:28.48
Porsche Boxster S 1:29.10
BMW M3 1:30.05
Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG 1:30.06

I hate to magazine race but here's an interesting data point from automobile mag. Audi RS5 got better lap times than boxster s, m3 and c63

Interesting aside is their comment that Boxster S was the only one that could go all day.
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      11-12-2012, 10:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...ion/specs.html

Lap Times
Grattan Raceway | 2.2 miles
Audi RS5 1:28.48
Porsche Boxster S 1:29.10
BMW M3 1:30.05
Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG 1:30.06

I hate to magazine race but here's an interesting data point from automobile mag. Audi RS5 got better lap times than boxster s, m3 and c63

Interesting aside is their comment that Boxster S was the only one that could go all day.
That is interesting. I was not aware of how fast the RS5 is, so thanks for updating me. It seems that the advanced 4-wheel-drive system is able to compensate for its weight.

Anyway, by race car I also mean if the brakes, tires, suspension, cooling/oil system and so on is built for track use. For example, a Z4 may be as fast as an M3 convertible on the first lap, but after 20 laps it wont be (due to overheating)...

For those of you not updated on the RS5, here is a quick quote from wiki: [..] the 2011 Audi RS5's engine is unique, [..], as it is actually based upon Audi's 5.2 FSI V10 (found in [..] Audi R8) with two cylinders removed. Transmission is via a 7-speed "S tronic" dual clutch semi-automatic.

The RS5 weighs 1,800 kg (3,968 lb), with 56.3 percent at the front and 43.7 in the rear which makes it prone to understeer, however Audi has added two electro-mechanical systems to counter its nose-heaviness. The stability-control system attempts to stop front-end plow before it happens by squeezing the brakes on the inside wheels which effectively drag those tires enough to pull the car into the corner. The RS5 also has an active rear differential that can apportion power between the rear wheels to create a similar effect, or even oversteer; in normal conditions, quattro all-wheel drive delivers 60 percent of the engine’s torque rearward and rising to as much as 85 percent depending on conditions.
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Little known facts about BMW: 1) The N54 is still in production and used in the current Z4 35i and 35is. 2) In a Z4 you can get sport+ steering combined with normal suspension etc by selecting DSC=off. (Update: DSC=off also offers sports steering in the M135i) 3) All Z4s with 19" wheels are still only offered with the worst performing OEM tires ever sold with a DCT equipped BMW (Potenza RE 050 RFT).
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      11-14-2012, 02:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjørn View Post
That is interesting. I was not aware of how fast the RS5 is, so thanks for updating me. It seems that the advanced 4-wheel-drive system is able to compensate for its weight.
Another heavily underrated car (at least among the German car enthusiasts I've met) is the C6 Corvette Z06. Here in the US the starting market price for a brand new car looks to be around $65k.

Good thing for the C63/M3/RS5 they included the Boxster S instead of the Z06.
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      11-16-2012, 10:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
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The C63 is track focused, (hard ride).
I have to disagree on this...
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