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      10-14-2011, 07:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdeslandes View Post
Ferrari has two main market segments:
* Folks who want the fastest 0-60 and track times. A DCT is the fastest way to shift for those guys.
* Retired orthodontists and hedge fund managers who want an alternative to Viagra and don't want to bother shifting on their way to the country club.

Yes a manual tranny is antiquated, but then so is a 2-seater roadster configuration. No-one buys a Z4 for extreme performance, practicality or any rational reason. We buy those for FUN. And whatever shifting method is more fun to you, is the one you should buy!
funny!
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      10-14-2011, 07:30 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1 View Post
alright... i dunno know what part of the 35i and 35is are one in the same you guys don't get... if you just need the excuse because you paid more than fine, but don't spread it around as if it was a fact.

anyway... the ESS stage II willl make the 35i and 35is equal, the 3 more hp that you get in your 35is from factory becomes irrelevant with any tune, ESS, Dinan, JB whatever.
I do not own a 35is so have no reason to excuse anything, Sorry. The engine is the same but the 35is has the following: Different internals (more durable), different gear ratios, upgraded fuel pump (the one that now BMW offers as an upgrade to all the HPFP failures), a "little" less restricted exhaust, performance cooling system and of course the different ECU with overboost function on the ECU which respectively will give more power on an tuned car (and thats something you cant retrofit). And THATS why ESS (for example) raises the RPM limit to 7200 on the 35is/1M than 7000 on the conventional N54 engines. It's Basically the 1M tweaked engine.
Not bashing on the 35i, i actually own one. Just setting facts straight =)
Ps: the difference between the is and 35i in performance is around 30hp not 3. Proven on dyno's.
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Last edited by Constant.S; 10-14-2011 at 07:35 PM.
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      10-14-2011, 08:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant.S View Post
Ps: the difference between the is and 35i in performance is around 30hp not 3. Proven on dyno's.
You're referring to stock, right? It seems like with ESS hp is almost same..
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      10-15-2011, 06:56 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haspi View Post
You're referring to stock, right? It seems like with ESS hp is almost same..
35is STAGE 1 and 35i Stage 2 are the same. Stage 2 not available yet for 35is/1M just to clear things up
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      10-15-2011, 07:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant.S View Post
The engine is the same but the 35is has the following: Different internals (more durable), different gear ratios, upgraded fuel pump (the one that now BMW offers as an upgrade to all the HPFP failures), a "little" less restricted exhaust, performance cooling system and of course the different ECU with overboost function on the ECU which respectively will give more power on an tuned car (and thats something you cant retrofit).
According to realoem.com, the engine and gearbox part numbers are same for both 35i and 35is. I don't understand how there could be any difference between them.
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      10-15-2011, 08:03 AM   #28
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Different internals (forged/semi-forged) makes a difference. Gearbox is the same GETRAG Powershift but different gearing ratios.
I wont try to convince anyone. If you wanna think its the same setup then go ahead =)
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      10-15-2011, 08:49 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant.S View Post
Different internals (forged/semi-forged) makes a difference. Gearbox is the same GETRAG Powershift but different gearing ratios.
I wont try to convince anyone. If you wanna think its the same setup then go ahead =)
This thread (you) is the first I've heard there is any difference between the "i" and "is" engines. But, I'd believe it if you can provide some documentation. In the end, many people will believe what they want regardless, but documentation beats conversation. And don't tell me to google it or search because you're the one making the claim.
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      10-15-2011, 11:06 AM   #30
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IMHO, the biggest difference between 35i and 35is are "ego" and "price hike" for a non-M car. The 35is brings a lot of it, as if it it were trying to compensate for some short comings...... Both cars are tunable!

As for the "antiquated" manual transmission, I've test driven DCT and I "personally" don't care to buy a car that makes "me" feel like I'm playing a Playstation video game by pushing and pulling buttons.

The only thing I liked about the 35IS are it's shoes, which I stole.
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Last edited by flpnout; 10-15-2011 at 11:14 AM.
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      10-15-2011, 11:32 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x97Melbourne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shashi27 View Post
While I love a manual I think the manual is antiquated.


Ferrari would not have abandoned manual transmissions in the 458 and F1 drivers would be using them in their cars. The DCT allows you to keep your hands on the wheel, where they belong.
It's a matter of personal preference of course. However, I don't think your example holds any water. Ferraris are meant to be raced and there is a definite racing advantage to an automatic/DCT. F1 Style racing as adopted the paddle shifting style for pure speed and a speed as well as safety advantage. It's faster, and, as you say, allow you to keep your hands on the wheel.

I would go out on a limb and say that most Z4 owners (even on an enthusiast forum like this) never track their cars. In fact, the same goes for most Ferrari owners. Everyone orders what ever car/transmission they desire....but to say an manual is antiquated is kind of out-there for me. I like the DCT but would never order it....I would equate the DCT to a fast roller coaster. It's fast as hell but there's no control.... DCT means you are riding, not driving. Still a cool/fast car, but certainly doesn't appeal to a lot of weekend on-ramp racers!

Whatever you chose, enjoy your Z4....awesome car either way. May be my next car!!
I always thought that F1 cars didn't have clutches but they actually do. I was recently in Singapore at the F1 race and got to visit some of the garages. One of the teams let me hold the steering wheel and explained that there are actually 3 paddles on the right side of the wheel, including a clutch, which must be engaged in order to shift.
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      10-15-2011, 12:12 PM   #32
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      10-15-2011, 01:14 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
And don't tell me to google it or search because you're the one making the claim.
LOL dont be lazy, Just use search on bimmerpost then. Hint: use "forged internals" or "IS/1M upgrade fuel pump". I wont do the favor to you "Internet warriors". Take it or leave it.
Maybe i know a thing or two cause I AM rebuilding my engine for a near future Turbo upgrade... I say "maaaybeee".

PS: I remember last time you wanted facts on a thread here i presented them (remember Gummi pfledge product? ).
Im done with this thread.
Peace
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      12-03-2012, 06:27 PM   #34
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35i is just as fast as the 35is with software tune. Same engine. I've read rumors about the 35is becoming extinct for an M35i....
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      12-03-2012, 09:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickshifter69 View Post
35i is just as fast as the 35is with software tune. Same engine. I've read rumors about the 35is becoming extinct for an M35i....
I just check on real oem and the 35is is classified as N54T and the 35i is N54

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10605

Check out the bottom of that first post with default jb4 settings for "regular n54" and "1m/335is" (N54T)

The boost targets are higher and start at the peak boost at lower rpm.

It is all speculation unless cars are raced heads up but I wouldn't be surprised if the 35is was quicker than 35i (stock and with tune)
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      12-03-2012, 10:02 PM   #36
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Thanks for that insightful research, nicknaz. It's nice to know the 35is IS potentially 0.020 seconds quicker than the 35i.
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      12-04-2012, 04:16 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickshifter69 View Post
Thanks for that insightful research, nicknaz. It's nice to know the 35is IS potentially 0.020 seconds quicker than the 35i.
The reason I am looking into it is I am trying to figure out whether or not the default JB4 settings for the 35is can be used in the 35i.

15psi target from 2500 to 5000rpm sounds a lot better to me than 11psi ramping up to 15psi at 5500 rpm.

Other than part numbers on the realoem website what other tech has come up on the forums to validate that the 35is is just a factory tune? I just keep seeing the same speculation rehashed when I search.
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      12-18-2012, 03:07 PM   #38
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Hi,
Its pretty interesting realoem states N54T for 1m/Z4 35is, and along with other websites saying the is was also tweaked by the M division.

When ppl with the 35i call out others with the 35is with a "big ego" I just chuckle. It's like the e46 328 guys saying that with an intake they'll be as fast as e46 330i.

It kinda of went both ways between supercharged 330's and M3's. Speaking for experience I can say that my supercharged 330's both beat and lost marginally to M3's. I beat an M6 on the highway.

I picked up an Z4is because IMO 335hp with engine, tranny, suspension tuning (and I think additional oil coolers) under warranty is better than a Z4 35i with a chip w/o warranty.

At the end of the day who cares. As long as we enjoy our rides.
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      12-19-2012, 09:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haspi View Post
A guy in dinan shop told me that ECU mod does not void BMW warranty. Is that correct?
That is correct, Dinan is the only aftermarket add on company that is supported by BMW and will not void your warranty.
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      12-19-2012, 10:03 PM   #40
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I'll take the 35iDinan please. I figure why just have a long name on the side of your car when you can have it on the back too.

sDrive35iDinan on the side vs Z4Dinan on the rear
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      12-20-2012, 04:46 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jts1981 View Post
I picked up an Z4is because IMO 335hp with engine, tranny, suspension tuning (and I think additional oil coolers) under warranty is better than a Z4 35i with a chip w/o warranty.
I understand your point about warranty, but I think the 35is is tuned in a different way than you think!

Tranny tuning? Are you sure? I think the most important question is: Is your 35is able to hold revs without upshifting automatically in M-mode? I assume not? I think this feature is only available with M dct cars?

Suspension tuning? Isnt it just that they offer beautiful 19" wheels with less grip and less comfort than the 18"? Or maybe the tuning mentioned is specific to the adaptive suspension?

Additional oil coolers? My 35i already has the aux oil cooler! I would imagine the 1M has better cooling, but the 35is?

I do believe the 35is has a tuned steering (different filter characteristics) to let more feedback/vibrations pass though! And if we forget about the warranty discussion, in my book this is the biggest possible technical advantage of the 35is vs a tuned 35i.
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Little known facts about BMW: 1) The N54 is still in production and used in the current Z4 35i and 35is. 2) In a Z4 you can get sport+ steering combined with normal suspension etc by selecting DSC=off. (Update: DSC=off also offers sports steering in the M135i) 3) All Z4s with 19" wheels are still only offered with the worst performing OEM tires ever sold with a DCT equipped BMW (Potenza RE 050 RFT).
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      12-23-2012, 10:52 AM   #42
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I picked up a 35i + ESS stg 2. I, personally, didn't think the 35is was worth the extra cash even if it is a tad bit stronger. I put a lot of that upgrade money into KW, upgraded wheels, intercooler, DP, etc and still pocketed some change. My butt dyno says 35hp increase between the two won't be missed.

And I guess I'm lucky with having STBMW near me so I don't have to worry about BMW a-holes flagging my car....but if I had to, i don't think I'll have much problem putting the car back to stock for warranty purposes. I almost never go to the dealer anyways.
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      12-23-2012, 05:56 PM   #43
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I would buy the 35is if I were ordering today and not modify a thing. As it is, we have a tastefully modified 35i and we love it.
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      12-24-2012, 11:07 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjørn View Post
I understand your point about warranty, but I think the 35is is tuned in a different way than you think!

Tranny tuning? Are you sure? I think the most important question is: Is your 35is able to hold revs without upshifting automatically in M-mode? I assume not? I think this feature is only available with M dct cars?

Suspension tuning? Isnt it just that they offer beautiful 19" wheels with less grip and less comfort than the 18"? Or maybe the tuning mentioned is specific to the adaptive suspension?

Additional oil coolers? My 35i already has the aux oil cooler! I would imagine the 1M has better cooling, but the 35is?

I do believe the 35is has a tuned steering (different filter characteristics) to let more feedback/vibrations pass though! And if we forget about the warranty discussion, in my book this is the biggest possible technical advantage of the 35is vs a tuned 35i.

I stand corrected, you are correct about the oiler coolers. I just did some research on realoem.com and the only notable differences besides the obvious body and interior aesthetics are exhaust, and brakes. I think i read some where the IS was also 10mm lower but I could be mistaken. There seams to be a slot of misleading articles and posts on the web.

Anyways I agree the biggest advantage is the warranty. If I was in the market for a used car and warranty wasn't a concern I would probably go with the 35i m sport package w/ tune and aftermarket parts.

But unfortunately I need a payment for tax issues and already had my fill with a built up car with no warranty. I love my supercharged 3 series but she can be a headache at times. Its nice to have something in same area of power/speed with warranty. I feel more comfortable taking the Z4 to a track day knowing that if something happens ill have warranty and a loaner car waiting for me.
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