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      09-23-2011, 10:30 AM   #1
haspi
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35is or 35i + Dinan/ESS

Hi all -

Once again, need your humble opinion. The lease is ending on my 09 35i. (babied..only 10K miles )

After test driving few other cars (inlcuding the current M3 conv) I decided to stick with z4.

I'm wondering if it makes sense to order a 35i (with sport pack) and then get a dinan upgrade OR get 35is.

Once you get the sport pack on 35i there is not much difference (to 35is) besides the power. The difference between 35is and i is almost $10K, which gives you only +35hp

Does it make sense to get 35i and Dinan? Any warranty issues ? Thanks...
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      09-23-2011, 11:39 AM   #2
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35is or 35i

It really comes down to what your transmission preference is. My title tells it all, why buy a roadster and emasculate it with a computer making shifting decisions vs 3rd pedal on the floor. Many options for increasing power and all are more powerful than what the "is" has over the "i". Pocket the difference and use it for mods (H&R swaybars and nonRFTs have dramatically improved my ride).
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      09-23-2011, 07:56 PM   #3
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While I love a manual I think the manual is antiquated.


Ferrari would not have abandoned manual transmissions in the 458 and F1 drivers would be using them in their cars. The DCT allows you to keep your hands on the wheel, where they belong.
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      09-23-2011, 08:39 PM   #4
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I'm definitely no retrogrouch and goes for what performs. DCT>>>>>MT any time of the day.
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      09-23-2011, 09:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haspi View Post
Hi all -

Once again, need your humble opinion. The lease is ending on my 09 35i. (babied..only 10K miles )

After test driving few other cars (inlcuding the current M3 conv) I decided to stick with z4.

I'm wondering if it makes sense to order a 35i (with sport pack) and then get a dinan upgrade OR get 35is.

Once you get the sport pack on 35i there is not much difference (to 35is) besides the power. The difference between 35is and i is almost $10K, which gives you only +35hp

Does it make sense to get 35i and Dinan? Any warranty issues ? Thanks...
If you really want performance, and it sounds like you do, the 35i + Dinan is the way to go. The 35is power increase is a momentary blip when you consider the Dinan Statge II.
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Last edited by teagueAMX; 09-24-2011 at 10:40 AM.
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      09-24-2011, 10:10 AM   #6
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I was faced with similar decision, 35i with Dinan tune or 35is. But my first concern was with the warranty (which I don't know if the BMW dealership would honor on a mod car). I have decided on the 35is (and if I still like the car after 4 years, will consider the Dinan upgrade). In the meantime would have the small additional power of the 35is over the 35i.

Not having a manual transmission is not a show-stopper for me. My cars are daily drivers through some city traffic and I would prefer the DCT.
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      09-24-2011, 11:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
If you really want performance, and it sounds like you do, the 35i + Dinan is the way to go. The 35is power increase is a momentary blip when you consider the Dinan Statge II.
but you can JB4 the 35is. Not sure why everybody is so hot on dinan. Some of us lived through the E39 M5 saga with Dinan and it was ugly. If you don't know what I am referring to, google it.
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      09-24-2011, 01:43 PM   #8
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but you can JB4 the 35is. Not sure why everybody is so hot on dinan. Some of us lived through the E39 M5 saga with Dinan and it was ugly. If you don't know what I am referring to, google it.
Googled it -nothing popped up - if you know of a specific link let me know.

Not having seen the articles, for discussion purposes I concede that whatever you're talking about was not a pretty sight. Regardless, the software tuner vs piggyback argument will rage forever. My issue with Dinan vs the rest of the BMW tuning world is there is no warranty, implied or otherwise with anyone but him. Putting all other issues aside, I find that to be an amazing fact. You couple that with his company's exposure even by offering a warranty in this industry is also amazing.

Think about it: I'm 55 so I can say that when I was younger people had a different idea about what warranty provided - basically it was the respect for a product that if used in a manner consistent with its original design intention, when it broke it got replaced or repaired. Additionally, if the covered item is a toaster, for instance, if I burned my fingers making toast it was because in most cases I was stupid. No one felt they had the right to sue the manufacture when they acted stupid.

Today, that not the case. A warranty is a get out of jail free card. Install a piggyback, run nO2 - ANYTHING - blow the engine clean of the car, reduce the transmission gears to powder, whatever, then strip it all off and have it towed to the dealer the next day and then say "fix it a**hole, and BTW do you have a loaner for me an my friends to use for a joy ride, such as running over curbs in the parking lot?". Oh, and heaven forbid that little Johnny got killed or injured while driving his jacked POS at 155 mph on the freeway, because mom and dad are going to sue BMW for building a passenger car that could be jacked up.

Frankly, I side with BMW on a lot of this stuff an applaud their efforts to engineer ECU codes that capture instances such abuse.

But back on Dinan, I trust his dyno test methodology more than the others, so I figure if anything his numbers are conservative as well. Remember I'm a veteran of the hot rod days and early computer performance marketing hype.

The bottom line:

If you're comfortable with taking your chances with a piggyback or some other tuner, and wrestling with BMW on your own, go for it. That's what's life is all about - calculated risk.

On the other hand, if asked, and occasionally I'm able to offer my 2 cents I can't in good conscience recommend that someone go the other route. I personally met Steve Dinan and thought he was a really nice guy with a high level of integrity. We all know there's plenty of nice guys that have left people holding the bag. But in my book, that's a good place to start getting something, when I know for fact the other way means zero from the start. But again, it's all about calculated risk and how you work the equation.

Cheers
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      09-24-2011, 03:06 PM   #9
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Isnt the new 35i gonna have the N55 motor? and 35is will keep N54?

So idk, does Dinan have a tune for the N55?
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      09-24-2011, 04:19 PM   #10
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A guy in dinan shop told me that ECU mod does not void BMW warranty. Is that correct?

My initial impression was that Dinan provides their own warranty since BMW warranty would be voided. Now I'm confused...

If you get Dinan installed and something happens to the car (something not directly related to the mod) do you go through dinan to get it covered?

If so, I would prefer ESS where you can remove the mod before servicing...
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      09-24-2011, 05:19 PM   #11
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search m5board. I guess a lot of the references were removed on google. Basically Dinan hacksawed the firewall on quite a few Z8's and M5's to make the header fit. I had a E39 M5 with the S3 package and when dynoed, it wasn't making anywhere closed to the power claimed.. in fact they were about 70hp short. Read also explicitly the fine print on Dinan's warranty before proceeding. Past experience have shown a lot of finger pointing and work not being done. Experienced it 1st hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
Googled it -nothing popped up - if you know of a specific link let me know.

Not having seen the articles, for discussion purposes I concede that whatever you're talking about was not a pretty sight. Regardless, the software tuner vs piggyback argument will rage forever. My issue with Dinan vs the rest of the BMW tuning world is there is no warranty, implied or otherwise with anyone but him. Putting all other issues aside, I find that to be an amazing fact. You couple that with his company's exposure even by offering a warranty in this industry is also amazing.

Think about it: I'm 55 so I can say that when I was younger people had a different idea about what warranty provided - basically it was the respect for a product that if used in a manner consistent with its original design intention, when it broke it got replaced or repaired. Additionally, if the covered item is a toaster, for instance, if I burned my fingers making toast it was because in most cases I was stupid. No one felt they had the right to sue the manufacture when they acted stupid.

Today, that not the case. A warranty is a get out of jail free card. Install a piggyback, run nO2 - ANYTHING - blow the engine clean of the car, reduce the transmission gears to powder, whatever, then strip it all off and have it towed to the dealer the next day and then say "fix it a**hole, and BTW do you have a loaner for me an my friends to use for a joy ride, such as running over curbs in the parking lot?". Oh, and heaven forbid that little Johnny got killed or injured while driving his jacked POS at 155 mph on the freeway, because mom and dad are going to sue BMW for building a passenger car that could be jacked up.

Frankly, I side with BMW on a lot of this stuff an applaud their efforts to engineer ECU codes that capture instances such abuse.

But back on Dinan, I trust his dyno test methodology more than the others, so I figure if anything his numbers are conservative as well. Remember I'm a veteran of the hot rod days and early computer performance marketing hype.

The bottom line:

If you're comfortable with taking your chances with a piggyback or some other tuner, and wrestling with BMW on your own, go for it. That's what's life is all about - calculated risk.

On the other hand, if asked, and occasionally I'm able to offer my 2 cents I can't in good conscience recommend that someone go the other route. I personally met Steve Dinan and thought he was a really nice guy with a high level of integrity. We all know there's plenty of nice guys that have left people holding the bag. But in my book, that's a good place to start getting something, when I know for fact the other way means zero from the start. But again, it's all about calculated risk and how you work the equation.

Cheers
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      09-24-2011, 06:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shashi27 View Post
While I love a manual I think the manual is antiquated.


Ferrari would not have abandoned manual transmissions in the 458 and F1 drivers would be using them in their cars. The DCT allows you to keep your hands on the wheel, where they belong.
It's a matter of personal preference of course. However, I don't think your example holds any water. Ferraris are meant to be raced and there is a definite racing advantage to an automatic/DCT. F1 Style racing as adopted the paddle shifting style for pure speed and a speed as well as safety advantage. It's faster, and, as you say, allow you to keep your hands on the wheel.

I would go out on a limb and say that most Z4 owners (even on an enthusiast forum like this) never track their cars. In fact, the same goes for most Ferrari owners. Everyone orders what ever car/transmission they desire....but to say an manual is antiquated is kind of out-there for me. I like the DCT but would never order it....I would equate the DCT to a fast roller coaster. It's fast as hell but there's no control.... DCT means you are riding, not driving. Still a cool/fast car, but certainly doesn't appeal to a lot of weekend on-ramp racers!

Whatever you chose, enjoy your Z4....awesome car either way. May be my next car!!
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      09-24-2011, 07:06 PM   #13
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11 track days in the F430 so far and it's last of the good ones... It's a 6 speed manual. So far I've really enjoy the DCT in my 35is and it will be seeing some track time 1st week of October at Infineon. There is nothing like click-clacking through the gears and executing the perfect heel/toe on the track. Besides, my hands are on the steering wheel because I get all my downshifts done before the turn







Quote:
Originally Posted by x97Melbourne View Post
It's a matter of personal preference of course. However, I don't think your example holds any water. Ferraris are meant to be raced and there is a definite racing advantage to an automatic/DCT. F1 Style racing as adopted the paddle shifting style for pure speed and a speed as well as safety advantage. It's faster, and, as you say, allow you to keep your hands on the wheel.

I would go out on a limb and say that most Z4 owners (even on an enthusiast forum like this) never track their cars. In fact, the same goes for most Ferrari owners. Everyone orders what ever car/transmission they desire....but to say an manual is antiquated is kind of out-there for me. I like the DCT but would never order it....I would equate the DCT to a fast roller coaster. It's fast as hell but there's no control.... DCT means you are riding, not driving. Still a cool/fast car, but certainly doesn't appeal to a lot of weekend on-ramp racers!

Whatever you chose, enjoy your Z4....awesome car either way. May be my next car!!

Last edited by SANguru; 09-24-2011 at 07:13 PM.
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      09-24-2011, 07:22 PM   #14
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San Guru -- Awesome pic!!!! Anymore??
Nice looking garage.....doesn't get any better than that!!!!
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      09-24-2011, 07:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x97Melbourne View Post
Everyone orders what ever car/transmission they desire....but to say an manual is antiquated is kind of out-there for me. I like the DCT but would never order it....I would equate the DCT to a fast roller coaster. It's fast as hell but there's no control.... DCT means you are riding, not driving.
I personally never liked the clutch pedal and saw is it as a useless technical detail and never enjoyed driving manual cars because of that. DCT is perfect in that sense, you'll have to be a bit aware of the clutch when starting to move but after that you have full control, and the bonus is that you can use automatic mode in situations that call it. I don't see why DCT would limit your contol over gears, other than preventing selecting a gear that would blow the engine (unlike a manual gearbox).
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      09-24-2011, 07:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x97Melbourne View Post
It's a matter of personal preference of course. However, I don't think your example holds any water. Ferraris are meant to be raced and there is a definite racing advantage to an automatic/DCT. F1 Style racing as adopted the paddle shifting style for pure speed and a speed as well as safety advantage. It's faster, and, as you say, allow you to keep your hands on the wheel.

I would go out on a limb and say that most Z4 owners (even on an enthusiast forum like this) never track their cars. In fact, the same goes for most Ferrari owners. Everyone orders what ever car/transmission they desire....but to say an manual is antiquated is kind of out-there for me. I like the DCT but would never order it....I would equate the DCT to a fast roller coaster. It's fast as hell but there's no control.... DCT means you are riding, not driving. Still a cool/fast car, but certainly doesn't appeal to a lot of weekend on-ramp racers!

Whatever you chose, enjoy your Z4....awesome car either way. May be my next car!!
Hey I totally get what you are saying but the fact is manual cars are going away. Ferrari was just an example, Lamborghini as well, and Porsche will follow eventually, along with the Z4. I have an 83 308 QV for my manual needs so I am not against them I just see the writing on the wall.

As to the OP's orginal question, I guess a lot depends on how far u want to go with the tune. I love the IS exaust, the bodywork, but with the DCT you are kind of limited with the torque it can take. I think a little over 400HP is the max it can take according to posts I've seen around here.

Enjoy!
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      09-24-2011, 11:22 PM   #17
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I recently leased a 35is and really enjoy the exhaust sound which is definitely better than the 35i. I like the front and rear fascia better on the 35is than the 35i with the sport package. Also the optional wheels on the 35is are just beautiful and not available on the 35i. I got in on the great lease deal and it was actually a few dollars cheaper for the 35is so it was a no brainer for me. If I had to pay $10k more for it tho I would have to do some soul searching. The DCT is fantastic and once I have had it I would never ever go back to a manual. I just sold a Lotus Turbo Esprit V8 manual and I loved it but don't miss the manual now. I also recently purchased a Gallardo and chose the Egear on it because it made it more fun to drive for me (altho the Egear is not nearly as good of a transmission as the DCT). In the end tho, you only have to please yourself!
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      10-13-2011, 02:07 AM   #18
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Thanks a lot for your input. Right now, I'm more inclined to purchase my current car.

The best deal I found for a 2012 35i (same configuration) is +20K more than payoff amount.

Having less than 10K miles on the car...not sure if it makes sense to cash out 20K for a 2012. decisions decisions...
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      10-14-2011, 04:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shashi27 View Post
While I love a manual I think the manual is antiquated.


Ferrari would not have abandoned manual transmissions in the 458 and F1 drivers would be using them in their cars. The DCT allows you to keep your hands on the wheel, where they belong.
Ferrari has two main market segments:
* Folks who want the fastest 0-60 and track times. A DCT is the fastest way to shift for those guys.
* Retired orthodontists and hedge fund managers who want an alternative to Viagra and don't want to bother shifting on their way to the country club.

Yes a manual tranny is antiquated, but then so is a 2-seater roadster configuration. No-one buys a Z4 for extreme performance, practicality or any rational reason. We buy those for FUN. And whatever shifting method is more fun to you, is the one you should buy!
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      10-14-2011, 05:55 PM   #20
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35is Will make more with ESS tune than the 35i will and thats a fact. So if you want performance 35is.
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      10-14-2011, 06:09 PM   #21
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alright... i dunno know what part of the 35i and 35is are one in the same you guys don't get... if you just need the excuse because you paid more than fine, but don't spread it around as if it was a fact.

anyway... the ESS stage II willl make the 35i and 35is equal, the 3 more hp that you get in your 35is from factory becomes irrelevant with any tune, ESS, Dinan, JB whatever.
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      10-14-2011, 06:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Yes a manual tranny is antiquated, but then so is a 2-seater roadster configuration. No-one buys a Z4 for extreme performance, practicality or any rational reason.
I don't see 2-seater antiquated. It is good enough to carry me around, with added bonus of a passenger if the need arise. I drove many years mostly alone in a 5-seater sedan and it seemed so pointless. And there are many 4-seater sports cars where the rear seats are in practice useless, they just take space without any practical application.

If two seats are not enough, what is enough then? 5? 8? 30?
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