|
|
03-20-2010, 04:50 PM | #1 |
Private
8
Rep 54
Posts |
Oh No - Not Again - HPFP
OK, now I am a reasonable fellow. I don't ask for much from a $50,000+ sports car, you know, start stop, go fast, look good doing it. Usual stuff. I cannot meet any of those objectives this weekend. My 2009 Z4 35i is back at BMW due to, you guessed it, hpfp, and possibly an injector issue. I already had the hpfp replaced once at 1,500 miles, now at 5,000 miles car long cranks, engine light comes on, message saying engine operating at reduced power and she is bucking like a bronco all the way home. Barely made it home as a matter of fact. Had it flat bedded to BMW and they said the codes lit up like a christmas tree.
So here is my question to the group, given that BMW extended the warranty to 10 yrs, 120,000 miles, should I be satisfied with that, or, do I pursue this with the regional rep at BMW and say something like, you know what, I bought a $50,000+ BMW first because I love the z4 and second becuase of BMW's reputation for quality, etc. BMW is letting me down. They know there is a design flaw and one day soon it is going to leave me stranded. I don't know when, I don't know where, but it will happen and I can't be towing my z4 into the dealer ever 4 months to change out the fuel pump. You can tell by my tone that I am being sarcastic, but seriously, this has me really upset and mad. I cannot believe that in the span of 6 months and 5,000 miles I am having these kinds of issues. And don't get me started on what a piece of sh*t the base radio is. The loaner 328 they gave me has the professional radio and it is great. I am so disappointed with the base radio I cannot believe they even call it a radio......;( |
03-20-2010, 05:04 PM | #2 |
Colonel
1234
Rep 2,602
Posts |
It makes no sense to me that a relatively high percentage of owners have multiple HPFP issues yet others have none. I'm closing in on 8,000 miles in 9 months with no issues. Knock on wood.
__________________
2020 X3M non-comp, Alpine White over black : Exec Pkg, ventilated M Sport seats, 20"s
2020 M2 Comp, Sunset Orange/Blk: Orange stitching, DCT, exec pkg, bicolor rims Gone '18 M550i, '16 X4 M40i, '15 M5, '13 X3 35i, '12 335is, '11 X5 50i, '09 Z4 35i, '08 550i, 06 X3, 06 650i, '02 M5, '99 540i |
Appreciate
0
|
03-20-2010, 11:33 PM | #3 |
Colonel
65
Rep 2,087
Posts |
I see BMW's reaction to the HPFP to be very interesting. My theory is the engine mounded pumps are failing due to something mechanically related to the way they are mounted on the engine. I'm suggesting that even though the pump itself is failing, it's actually a problem with the engine design itself.
What's the basis for this conclusion? 1. BMW does not manufacture the pumps - they are made by another company (the name escapes me right now), but they make pumps other manufactures as well, including Volkswagen and no doubt Porsche. So, if it was possible to do a simple redesign that would have happened long ago. Remember this N54 engine/HPFP problem has plagued the 3 series owners for some time as well. 2. It’s not uncommon for fuel pumps of this type to last 75,000 miles trouble free. 3. Some have speculated it's fuel additives but I reject that - fuel additives have been in our petrol for a long time, and, even BMW’s other HPFP don't have the problem (e.g., X6 50i). 4. As stated, HPFP are not new to BMW or other manufactures and the other pumps don't appear to be having this issue. To sum it up: The HPFP design is not new and additives are not the issue. So, then the conclusion is that it’s a HPFP used in conjunction with the BMW N54 engine. If fixing the pump would resolve the issue, why hasn’t that happened, especially since it has to be costing BMW millions? The design of the engine must somehow be impacting the pump’s longevity. Maybe it’s the mounting location, or the design of the mounting surface on the engine block, or whatever. BMW would have to go back to the drawing board and admit they made a mistake or that there is a design flaw in their award winning engine. Apparently, they’re not willing to do that, but rather allow owners to quietly suffer and placate them with an extended warranty. I think they would rather phase out the N54 so that over time the problem goes away. The problem is that at least one auto journalist (so far) has commented that the n54 is a better performance engine than its replacement, the single twin-scroll turbocharged N55. Ask yourself these questions: if this problem has happened to you once or maybe twice when the car has less than 5,000 miles, would you be willing to take a long drive in it? Isn’t your use of the car and the enjoyment you derive from ownership and driving substantially diminished because of this problem? What does that say about paying such a high premium for a BMW – can the owner expect no satisfaction from BMW except a longer warranty (you know you’re going to finally give up and quietly sell the car)? What does this say about BMW the manufacture of the “Ultimate Driving Machine” and their “Joy” slogans? Isn’t it all really marketing hype? I have to admit, for many years, I’ve been very cynical about big business, but those feelings have been tempered somewhat by the positive treatment some of the forum members have received from BMW. This problem is perplexing. Why would a company that gives a guy a replacement car because his original was damaged in transport turns their back on so many owners by simply giving them an extended warranty. The warranty is a placebo because people that have this problem experience HPFP failures sometimes 3 or 4 times. What really puzzles me is why there hasn't been a recall or why one of the major magazines picked up on this issue. Clearly BMW is willing to let owners suffer with this issue, particularly since they don't get negative press except here. To the OP, I would contact BMWNA and express your displeasure with the situation and demand some other resolution rather than the warranty extension. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-21-2010, 02:32 AM | #4 |
Second Lieutenant
11
Rep 217
Posts |
A question: does this only happen to US Z4's ? I have not seen anyone from Europe replying to a thread about the HPFP failing (could be wrong though...)
__________________
2012 - F30 - 330d M-pack - Glacier Silver
1999 - Honda S2000 - Silverstone |
Appreciate
0
|
03-21-2010, 03:36 AM | #5 |
freude am fahren ....scheiden freude...
17
Rep 299
Posts |
maybe a boy from middle east reported a similar problem.....
Here in Italy thera are not so much cars with HPFP issue....but after changing it only one car(fro what I know) had this problem again.... maybe too much ethanol in your petrol?just guessing....but I am pretty sure this question have yet an answer at bmw round table.... Francesco |
Appreciate
0
|
03-21-2010, 05:14 AM | #6 |
Private
0
Rep 66
Posts |
High Pressure Fuel Pump problems
Does not seem to be a major problem in UK but I have seen a couple of HPFP issues mention on other forums. See http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewto...l+pump#p222294
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-21-2010, 06:22 AM | #8 |
Lieutenant
49
Rep 519
Posts |
HPFP issue is associated with the N54 engine and not the car-type in which it's installed. The failure rate has been slightly higher than it should be and so BMW has put an extended warranty on the part.
And the topic has caused beaucoup rants, laments, and anguished, undies-in-a-knot cries on BMW forums for the 1-, 3-, and 5-series, as well as new Z4. A handful of these postings come from people who actually had an HPFP failure (resolved under warranty) but most are from folks who might - someday - maybe - have the part fail. I've two cars with the N54 now and turned in a third after 30K miles - my view of this calamitous situation is illustrated by the fact that I bought two more N54-cars after excellent experience with my first one. Though YMMV, I think the odds of having an HPFP failure are only slightly above the odds of having anything else fail on an overall well-engineered powerplant of superb capability. And BMW's backing on the issue, BMW Assist, and 24-hour tow assurance gives me piece-of-mind that I'm not going to get overly stuck somewhere. Suggest worrywarts go here for some perspective... http://www.toyotanation.com/index.ph...=active_topics |
Appreciate
0
|
03-21-2010, 08:22 AM | #10 |
Colonel
249
Rep 2,386
Posts |
Rubber ducky, I agree with you 100%. This HPFP problem, while affecting some N54 drivers, has the appearance of being more common than it is. The only way to really know how many cars this is affecting is by checking the numbers. BMW has this but we don't. All we see on this forum are customers complaining about their HPFP or complaining that they're worried it'll happen to them. What we don't see is all the N54 owners who don't have problems. I imagine this second group outweighs the former by far. I'm not denying that this problem exists, only that it's less common than you think, hence, no recall, no auto mags writing it up.
Come on, all you N54 owners who haven't had an HPFP problem....Let's here from you. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-21-2010, 08:37 AM | #11 |
Private
8
Rep 54
Posts |
Look, I am not complaining about some possible future event. I am telling my fellow forum members that this is the second failure I have had in the last 4 months. First failure came at 1,500 miles, second failure came at 5,000 miles. The BMW roadside assistance is wonderful, but, would any of you want to be inconvenienced waiting for a wrecker, having your car towed to the dealer at 10 p.m. at night, having to hitch a ride to work the next day and deal with all the BS that comes with having your car in the shop for an extended period of time and not once, but twice? I bet the answer is no. Especially not after you spent over 50 grand on a 2 seat sports car. It is unbelievable to me. Oh, and just so you guys know, there was no warning the second time. Just one long crank and them full failure. So, you can very easily be stranded at any time.
Teagueamx, your post is right on the money. Thank you for your thoughtful insight. The rest of the posters who think this can't or won't happen to them, I hope you're rright, but, I'd be willing to bet that you're not. Good luck to all of you and I hope you don't have to go through this BS. I will be talking to my division rep at BMW and expressing my displeasure. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-21-2010, 09:18 AM | #12 |
Lieutenant
20
Rep 484
Posts |
its a worrisome problem. The issue seems to be how many they are actually having fail. If its a small percentage compared to the whole, then, yes they will just keep replacing the problem until a complete redesign. If however they have an overwhelming problem, like what became with toyota, then they have to take much more drastic measures. For the person experiencing the problem, it can be incredibly frustrating when you have spent hard earned money, and just want to enjoy the experience. It sure takes the bloom off the rose, so to speak.
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-21-2010, 10:45 AM | #13 |
Private First Class
3
Rep 115
Posts
Drives: Z4 sDrive35i
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Antwerp
|
, no problem over here in Belgium, using mainly 98 octane Esso fuel. Do not share (bad) experiences with other HPFP N54 owners ...
__________________
GrtZ
Yo! |
Appreciate
0
|
03-21-2010, 11:02 AM | #14 |
Colonel
65
Rep 2,087
Posts |
It's not the fuel!
It's not the fuel! It's not the fuel! Come on people - think it through. Regardless of how many cars it affects or not, think about. Nobody is complaining about the X6 HPFP failing the same rate as the 3 series or Z4 N54 engine. The X6's are using the same fuel. Additionally, all manufacture's fuel is piped underground into huge depots and mixed together based on octane. Only at the time it it being transported to the gas stations does it receive each respective manufactures' additives. Octane makes a difference during the combustion cycle because higher levels of octane function as a combustion inhibitor, but other than that it has no affect on the quality of the fuel. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-21-2010, 04:54 PM | #16 |
Major
54
Rep 1,162
Posts |
The most disappointing aspect of this issue is that it has been going on now for almost 3 years and it seems BMW still has not figured out what is the solution. I believe they are now on their 3rd or 4th fuel pump and failures are still occurring albeit in small numbers but I believe the have been reported on 1 series, 3 series, 5 series, and now the Z4. If I were head of engineering at BMWAG, I would be rather embarrassed.
__________________
Colonel (Retired), US Army/Hagerstown, MD
2016 518ixdrive/MSport AW/Ivory White ED-01-10 2010 Z4s30i AW/Beige/Burl/ 6MT/SP/PP/CWP/NAV/ipod/USB/CA (retired) 2011 335d BS/Oyster/PP/CWP/NAV/ipod/USB(Daily Driver) 30+ mpg(retired) |
Appreciate
0
|
03-21-2010, 08:05 PM | #17 |
Colonel
65
Rep 2,087
Posts |
+1
The 3 series forums have a lot of info on this issue. Was going back over it today and apparently BMW has admitted that at least 5 percent of their HPFP will fail, whereas some of the statistics indicate it may be as high as 30 percent, which seems rather high. Additionally, I started a thread to find out if in fact it's primarily a North American continent issue vs European v anywhere else. It appears that it's not limited to the US based on BMW own data. Repeated occurrences and a few other factors completely rule out the fuel/additives being a factor. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-21-2010, 11:47 PM | #18 | |
Private
13
Rep 86
Posts |
Quote:
regarding the HPFP i had that issue once when my car was around 5,000 km. they changed it and reprogramed my car. knock on wood its 14,000km now and no issues. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2010, 12:45 AM | #19 |
Second Lieutenant
23
Rep 236
Posts |
I had a 2007 335. Had the HPFP replaced twice when the car left me stranded. Car was giving symptoms that the pump was going to fail a third time. When I got the Z4, made it easier to get the 30i instead of the 35i if it meant more reliability.
__________________
2007 e92 335i
Alpine white/black leather/aluminum trim Mods:aluminum pedals, 35% tint, carbon fiber roundels, painted side bumper reflectors, Hoen Xenon Match Angel Eye bulbs, 19' Axis Penta Wheels, Eibach Pro kit |
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2010, 01:06 AM | #21 | |
Second Lieutenant
23
Rep 236
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
2007 e92 335i
Alpine white/black leather/aluminum trim Mods:aluminum pedals, 35% tint, carbon fiber roundels, painted side bumper reflectors, Hoen Xenon Match Angel Eye bulbs, 19' Axis Penta Wheels, Eibach Pro kit |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2010, 10:13 AM | #22 |
Private
8
Rep 54
Posts |
HPFP has been replaced and computer system reprogrammed/updated. In my view, I don't see how the computer update will affect the fuel pump and stop the failures. So that leaves me back in the same position I was in before. With a $50,000+ car that I don't know when it will crap out on me again. I am going to follow up with the BMW area rep and will report back to the group.
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|